[SUGGESTION] LIMIT POINT / MERIT POINT SYSTEM

[MistyMew]

I like the idea of a merit system.
Please consider se.

Theres nothing wrong with taking any feature from any game whether it be wow, ffxi...rift...or the countless others out there if it adds a bit of depth the game. Many games have some excellent features..why not add them in here.

I guarantee you, FFXIV design will absolutely stagnant if more indepth designs and addition of many player choices are not added at one point.

That goes for every aspect, UI design and options, gearing, pvp, housing design really needs a major change, dungeon design, crafting...

What i have seen so far is most times SE thinks needless complexity = depth, but thats simply not the case.
I love ffxiv but never will be blinded to think that changes are not needed or beneficial to the game.

[NovaLevossida]

I like merit points / alternate advancement as it were in EverQuest, but in the post-WoW era, there's going to be a "best" and "correct" way to spend your points, so it's just going to kill customization anyway. "Oh, you specced for increased Contagion duration? That's a DPS loss over improved Fester, you gimp."

I'd really only support this if your merit point allocations were invisible to others.

[Deathscythe343]

alternate advancement as it were in EverQuest,

This is probably my favorite system in any of the MMOs that I have played. It allowed for so much character advancement beyond just getting the best gear.

Yes, the min/maxers will find the "best" things to put points into. But one of the best things about the EQ system was that, given enough time, any player could get all possible AAs.

Something like this would easily give people something to do other than cap on tomestones for the week.

[Callinon]

I like merit points / alternate advancement as it were in EverQuest, but in the post-WoW era, there's going to be a "best" and "correct" way to spend your points, so it's just going to kill customization anyway. "Oh, you specced for increased Contagion duration? That's a DPS loss over improved Fester, you gimp."

I'd really only support this if your merit point allocations were invisible to others.

Your damage output would also have to be invisible to others.

Here's the thing about things like this. And it's the reason WoW moved away from talent trees (something else people ask for a lot).

They aren't real choices. You aren't really making choices there. It looks like you're making choices. You seem to be selecting from a list and allocating points based on what you want. But in reality you have exactly two choices to choose between:
1: Pick the mathematically strongest build.
2: Do it wrong.

People blame min/maxers for sucking the fun out of a game, but the fact of the matter is that in group content you're playing with other people. It's disrespectful to them not to come prepared to play your best game. If you're strictly a solo player and never do any group content, then have at it, your choices are meaningless anyway.

So you're really just choosing to either intentionally gimp yourself or play the best build. It's the same problem I have with the bonus stat allocation system. It isn't a real choice. You can either put the points into your primary stat, or you can choose to do it wrong. The only remotely interesting choice comes from tanks choosing between more vit or more str. And even that can be boiled down to numbers based on gear level for what that tank "should" do to be optimal.

I'm all for meaningful choices, and I like customization. But I'm against the false choice systems that talent trees and merit points produce. They just turn into traps for newer or less-informed players to fall in to and make a mistake just because they didn't know everything.

[Bishop81]

Your damage output would also have to be invisible to others.

Here's the thing about things like this. And it's the reason WoW moved away from talent trees (something else people ask for a lot).

They aren't real choices. You aren't really making choices there. It looks like you're making choices. You seem to be selecting from a list and allocating points based on what you want. But in reality you have exactly two choices to choose between:
1: Pick the mathematically strongest build.
2: Do it wrong.

People blame min/maxers for sucking the fun out of a game, but the fact of the matter is that in group content you're playing with other people. It's disrespectful to them not to come prepared to play your best game. If you're strictly a solo player and never do any group content, then have at it, your choices are meaningless anyway.

So you're really just choosing to either intentionally gimp yourself or play the best build. It's the same problem I have with the bonus stat allocation system. It isn't a real choice. You can either put the points into your primary stat, or you can choose to do it wrong. The only remotely interesting choice comes from tanks choosing between more vit or more str. And even that can be boiled down to numbers based on gear level for what that tank "should" do to be optimal.

I'm all for meaningful choices, and I like customization. But I'm against the false choice systems that talent trees and merit points produce. They just turn into traps for newer or less-informed players to fall in to and make a mistake just because they didn't know everything.

For players like you, there is no "choice". You are obsessed with being "optimal" - like a smoker addicted to smoking.

Worse, you see your way of playing as the only way and think everyone would play the same way.

Never does it occur to you that some people would play for "fun" instead of "optimal".

[Casualty]

For players like you, there is no "choice". You are obsessed with being "optimal" - like a smoker addicted to smoking.

Worse, you see your way of playing as the only way and think everyone would play the same way.

Never does it occur to you that some people would play for "fun" instead of "optimal".

The problem with your post is that it assumes that people who play optimally aren't doing so for fun. I enjoy my gametime, and get the most enjoyment from the gameplay (so sans the socializing aspect) by doing well at my role, facing a challenge, and succeeding. What I do not find fun is having to work as a collective group X% harder because someone in the group wanted to be different. To me, in a social game, that is the epitome of selfish behavior. Playing solo content or in unsynched/old content do as you please. You will win either way, which makes the choices ironically meaningless as well.

[Callinon]

For players like you, there is no "choice". You are obsessed with being "optimal" - like a smoker addicted to smoking.

Worse, you see your way of playing as the only way and think everyone would play the same way.

Never does it occur to you that some people would play for "fun" instead of "optimal".

I didn't say that playing your best is the only way to play. I said it's disrespectful to others not to do it. You're free to make that choice, but you should have no allusions about what you're doing.

If you're playing with other people who ARE doing their best, then you're just a liability if you're not doing the same. It's extremely selfish to make everyone else work harder because you can't be bothered to try.

I'll reiterate too, I LIKE character customization. I wish FFXIV would do more to differentiate people of the same job. I'd like some kind of specialization system to emphasize different playstyles. But I object to false choices. If such a system is going to be implemented, then it has to be balanced such that my performance is roughly the same no matter what I decide to choose. Some spread is inevitable, but it should be really minor (maybe +/- 10% in either direction? I could live with that).

Let me give an example of what I mean.

As a NIN main, maybe I could choose to emphasize my DoT gameplay and have a specialization that revolves around DoTs and getting bonuses when I manage those correctly. Maybe I could have one that emphasizes positional gameplay, adding more positional requirements to my abilities and providing commensurate bonuses when I execute that properly. But whichever one of those I choose, they'd have to be roughly the same in terms of performance. Then it really is a playstyle choice.

[Sandpark]

I'll reiterate too, I LIKE character customization. I wish FFXIV would do more to differentiate people of the same job. I'd like some kind of specialization system to emphasize different playstyles. But I object to false choices.

As a NIN main, maybe I could choose to emphasize my DoT gameplay and have a specialization that revolves around DoTs and getting bonuses when I manage those correctly. Maybe I could have one that emphasizes positional gameplay, adding more positional requirements to my abilities and providing commensurate bonuses when I execute that properly. But whichever one of those I choose, they'd have to be roughly the same in terms of performance. Then it really is a playstyle choice.

/Throws money at Callinon. Get on the dev team and make it happen, it is sorely needed.

[Nicobo]

...Let me give an example:

Normal level 60 monster would yield a level 60 player 400EXP, while under Merit it would gain 1LP. It would take 100LP to get your first merit (this is just a number im making up at the top of my head) or basically 100 EXP yielding Monster KOs.

For gathering you would need to completely harvest an EXP yielding node to gain 1LP and 100LP would get you your first merit.

For crafting you would need to craft 1HQ and 50NQ EXP yielding items to get 1LP and 100LP to get your first merit.
...

If it is SE implementation, I can foresee it will be a "relic zodiac" on your skills but not the weapon,
So very likely it will be something like you farm Merit_ATMA, collect Lights, farm dungeon drops, farm materia5 and pray for infusion...etc
I will not so naive to think it will come from my excessive exp after I capped my lv.

Moreover, look at desync item, if they implement merit points, it is predictable that it will be limited to 1-3 jobs or what 300pts shared by all jobs. Eventually it just defeats the principle "everyone can do everything on one character" again.


therefore I OBJECT Merit Point.

[Khalithar]

Part of me rather likes the simplified end game progression system. Do these raids for these items to get this gear that is the best, period. No spreadsheeting or research needed to optimize things like stats, no weighing different pieces and having to adjust which stats I wanted. Just a quick clean get this item, equip it, done.

Snip

Well said, +1 to all your points.