[Feedback] Character Development and Builds

[Synovius]

Square Enix

I'll keep this brief and let the community chime in but I wanted to provide some feedback on the state of the class/job system and character progression. As a background, I've been subscribed since launch and actively play with a primary focus as raiding.

Currently there is no character development at all. There is no such thing as a build. There are no talents. The cross-class abilities are set in stone for every job and the stat allocation is completely pointless as the stats simply go entirely in your primary stat. What this game desperately needs is some kind of depth with respect to character development.

The system you implement doesn't have to be talent trees. It doesn't even have to be talents. However, there need to be some meaningful choices for jobs that alter the play in some way. For example, consider if my main job of BLM offered a choice between the following two traits:

1) Your Firestarter procs now stack to 3
2) Firestarter no longer causes your next Fire III to be instant cast and require no mana but, instead, now causes your Fire I critical strikes to ignite your target for Fire damage over 10 seconds for a total of 300 potency.

Imagine having to make a choice like that on BLM and how it would affect your gameplay. Further, think how much fun it would be to build the character YOU want to play. Personally, I could see myself choosing either one of those talents. One provides extra mobility while the other provides an overall damage boost and probably a cool particle effect watching your target burn to death.

Again, it doesn't have to work just like that but something needs to be done to enhance character development.

So, in closing:

1) The stat point allocation is pointless and shallow
2) The cross-class abilities are set in stone and there are no choices there. It's shallow and pointless too.
3) You need some form of real character building or development in this game.

[Synovius]

Any thoughts?

[Kiteless]

No. At this point in the game's development, that would mean rebalancing and retuning everything already existing to fit these new customizations. Additionally, these new options would swiftly become meaningless, as ones which are clearly optimal end up soon becoming the only accepted setups in end-game compositions anyway. If talent trees and other such systems were added to FF14 at this point, they wouldn't exist to improve the game, but rather arbitrarily, for the sole sake of perpetuating a shallow idea of customization.

That's simply not the kind of game that FF14 is, or is trying to be.

[Synovius]

No. At this point in the game's development, that would mean rebalancing and retuning everything already existing to fit these new customizations. Additionally, these new options would swiftly become meaningless, as ones which are clearly optimal end up soon becoming the only accepted setups in end-game compositions anyway. If talent trees and other such systems were added to FF14 at this point, they wouldn't exist to improve the game, but rather arbitrarily, for the sole sake of perpetuating a shallow idea of customization.

That's simply not the kind of game that FF14 is, or is trying to be.

Then I'd say we should get rid of the attribute points altogether then as it's a completely pointless system. Also, a cursory glance at, say, WoW talents, would prove what you're saying about it being shallow completely wrong. The talents in that game offer interesting choices and there are seldom any "cookie cutter" builds. Everyone has their own playstyle (that said, @#^! WoW).

[Reynhart]

Additionally, these new options would swiftly become meaningless, as ones which are clearly optimal end up soon becoming the only accepted setups in end-game compositions anyway.

If you play in Duty Finder, people will take what you are
If you play with your friends, they'll take you like you are...or you'd better change friends.
If you seek in Party Finder and people scold you for not being a perfect min-maxer instead of wanting to enjoy your character, run away from them like plague.

This concern is pure nonsense and it's sad to see it every time some unique feature are asked.

Ffxi had merits/job points and subjob system which allowed huge flexibility and unique gameplay tactics....unfortunately, this led to huge problems with job balance

Even without merit or subjobs, jobs aren't even close to be balanced in FFXI

[Carmichrobe]

I agree with you OP and I think a lot of people would. I don't think customisation is shallow, but rather has the potential to enrich an individuals play style. I'm sure any changes like the ones you suggested will result in a spec that comes out on top and by all means let the elitists play them that way -- I'm sure for all those that need to be the best, there will be others who are happy playing alternative and viable options when given the choice to play differently.

[justinjarjar]

I mean wow now at least has one build for PVE and one build for PVP. Get that out of the way, only classes that mess with attribute points are tanks.

[Nurvus]

My changes would include:
1 - Making Cross Class Skills a point-buy system rather than fixed slots.
Some skills would "occupy" 6 points, others 3, etc. We might then have real options.
2 - Adding some more procs/effects that make our rotation more dynamic - providing opportunities for great players to rise above average players through skill/decision-making.
3 - Make Materia more reminiscent of FF7, in particular Blue Materia.
Here's the thread where I added to liljramos88's suggestion:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ria-system-Pls

Here is also a doc I made while providing feedback during closed beta:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...EA4BgviOsI/pub

[justinjarjar]

Skill trees are dead guys, why are people so set on them?

[Jandor]

Skill trees are dead guys, why are people so set on them?

They're fun, making builds is fun, trying things is fun. I don't buy the 'everyone just picks the best' excuse. People look up the best way to do everything currently in game anyway, if following guides ruins the fun then we may as well bin the whole game.