Giving each job a second spec: would it work?

[Delily]

As for the numerous jobs they could add, I don't think it's really a good idea. The more jobs you have, the less you can keep the game's balance. FFXI is a pretty good example of how lots of jobs are just useless, even it they tried to rotate them with each patch.

FFXI's problem is that the jobs did not have well defined roles. Ninjas are considered tanks, but they were originally intended to be damage. Summoners are a mixed bag. The trinity system may seem constrictive, but it sets limits on the expectations and abilities of the job and gives the designers the freedom within those limits.

To answer the OP's question, no it wouldn't work. One spec would always perform better than the other, and the community would expect players to use that spec for content. As many have pointed out, FFXV version of skill trees and specs is the ability to switch your job at any time (outside of instanced content).

[Reynhart]

FFXI's problem is that the jobs did not have well defined roles. Ninjas are considered tanks, but they were originally intended to be damage. Summoners are a mixed bag. The trinity system may seem constrictive, but it sets limits on the expectations and abilities of the job and gives the designers the freedom within those limits.

I don't understand how you could create a spell that negates damage and don't even consider how useful it could be for a tank
Especially since, in early FFXI, the only thing you needed to keep aggro was a WAR subjob.

To answer the OP's question, no it wouldn't work. One spec would always perform better than the other, and the community would expect players to use that spec for content. As many have pointed out, FFXV version of skill trees and specs is the ability to switch your job at any time (outside of instanced content).

This is always the answer when customization is asked for...and I think it's actually not an issue. Like not all PT only use the absolute best tank, the absolute best DPS or the absolute best healer, people will take what they can.

Especially since most of content is played either with a Duty Finder where people don't know what the setup will be, or in static within the same company, where most people will take you with your job, because it's the thing you want to play. As for Party Finder, you'll have the option of joining who you want, and if you don't like the "only this job with this spec" mentality, you'll just join another party.

This demonstrates ignorance of the issue. The reason the designers don't like the split is because anytime the class's skills are modified, it will impact both jobs, which occupy 2 different roles.

As level cap increases, job actions would have taken a more important part of your skill list, so it wouldn't have been too hard to balance it. Or, like HW, did, classes skills could stop at level 50, so this is, again, not a real issue.

[Hix]

As for the numerous jobs they could add, I don't think it's really a good idea. The more jobs you have, the less you can keep the game's balance. FFXI is a pretty good example of how lots of jobs are just useless, even it they tried to rotate them with each patch.

Do you imagine that having specs over jobs reduces the amount of balancing? If two specs on the same class/job have the same role, then one spec which performs better becomes the mandatory choice - this is the 'illusion of choice' problem. Furthermore if one spec of one job is better than everything else it becomes mandatory not just compared to other specs in the same job, but for the entire role. So they're going to have to end up using a lot of time balancing specs, and it's not clear to me why this would be significantly easier than balancing a whole new job.

And that's not even getting into the fact that when you change a job to balance one spec, you're going to have unintended consequences on the other specs in that job.

[Reynhart]

Do you imagine that having specs over jobs reduces the amount of balancing? If two specs on the same class/job have the same role, then one spec which performs better becomes the mandatory choice - this is the 'illusion of choice' problem. Furthermore if one spec of one job is better than everything else it becomes mandatory not just compared to other specs in the same job, but for the entire role. So they're going to have to end up using a lot of time balancing specs, and it's not clear to me why this would be significantly easier than balancing a whole new job.

See my previous answer. Most of the time, people won't have control over the party setup, so nothing will ever be mandatory.
Last time I checked, Relics were the absolute best weapons before expansion, yet, it was never mandatory.

[Hix]

See my previous answer. Most of the time, people won't have control over the party setup, so nothing will ever be mandatory.
Last time I checked, Relics were the absolute best weapons before expansion, yet, it was never mandatory.

So you think that it's a good idea to have unbalanced classes because the only time class balance matters is Savage Alexander?

[Reynhart]

So you think that it's a good idea to have unbalanced classes because the only time class balance matters is Savage Alexander?

I think its a not-as-bad-idea-as having everyone exactly the same
I also think that additionnal "specs" of need to play another role, exatcly like SMN and SCH for ACN. If I want to DPS with a spear, I can simply stay DRG, but It could be interesting to play a spear tank, like a Templar.

And besides, if you want to raid, you could chose the "best" spec for one of your classes, and play the other not-optimal classes on easier content, just because, I don't know...it's fun

[Makeda]

If a secondary specification was implemented that allowed each job to queue as a different role in dungeons/raids, it would allow those DPS-craving DRKs and WARs to fulfill that desire. It would allow WHMs and SCH to join in a group as a true DPS. The only part that might be difficult, is figuring out what second specification the pure DPS jobs could have.

Scholar already has two specs. The other one is called Summoner.

You would basically need to do that with every Job.

[Delily]

Scholar already has two specs. The other one is called Summoner.

You would basically need to do that with every Job.

You mean arcanist, and the design team already said they would not do that again.

[Makeda]

You mean arcanist, and the design team already said they would not do that again.

No I meant Scholar. Not Arcanist. Scholar is the healing spec, Summoner the DPS spec. The same Job otherwise - they share gear and levels, other than the weapon.

I don't get why the design team wouldn't do it again - it works very well.

Though I also don't see the need for dual spec'd Jobs / classes. I do however, think that they should add a DPS heavy armor Job, and a Tanking medium armor job.

- And MAYBE some medium or heavy armor Healing jobs, and Light armor Tanking jobs... - but these get conceptually / balance tricky.

[Ashkendor]

So if Devs decide they don't like something - even if players request more of it because it's successful from a functional and practical use standpoint (SCH/SMN) - they shouldn't consider it?

Nope. If they don't like it, they're under no obligation to do it no matter how many players want it.

No I meant Scholar. Not Arcanist. Scholar is the healing spec, Summoner the DPS spec. The same Job otherwise - they share gear and levels, other than the weapon.

You said "Scholar has two specs", though. It doesn't. Arcanist has two specs, Scholar and Summoner.