Does PLD Feel Shafted?

[Nadirah]

Maybe SE could add our CHA bonus to our saving throws so we resist more magic attacks (or only take half damage).

PLD already has a pretty sick Will save...

[Faytte]

I leveled as a paladin and defeated ravana ex as one before swapping over to war as my main. Atm I enjoy it and dark knight equally but I doubt anyone can justify paladin in this content environment. They are a class built around physical damage now in a world of mixed damage types which war and dark do better in while providing better damage. And yes, clemency stinks.

[Duelle]

The only thing that could use a change on PLD is clemency to be more usable as a MT(as it was pre-ARR).

I'd rather those resources be put towards improving Shield Swipe in some way. I hated Holy Succor because groups I ran with in 1.0 for some stupid reason expected me to throw out heals when I was busy holding aggro or reacting to things. There's simply no time to off-heal while MTing, and (in ARR context) the time spent casting could be spent doing an enmity combo or getting in another Royal Authority.

As I keep repeating, Clemency is to be used whole off-tanking and in situations where you catch someone that's not getting healed because the healer is healing someone else or the person is out of range (or there's simply lots of splash damage). It's utility in the "nice to have" category rather than "this is pretty damn good and you should use it", which is where we file Divine Veil.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

in a world of mixed damage types

Lol let's not pretend like magical damage based fights didn't exist in the past.

Turn 2 ADS = Magic fight
Ifrit Suppuration (fire breath cleave) = Magic damage
Ramuh EX = He's a mothafuc*in wizard so = Magic Damage
Leviathan EX* = He's a mothafuc*in magical fish so = Magic Damage (I think his tail did attacks you can parry / block but I can't remember)

I'm sure the list goes on. My point is, paladins living and surviving in a world where magic damage is a thing has always been a thing.

#Clemency #Stoneskin #Sentinel

[Brannigan]

Paladin doesn't really have problems actually surviving magical damage. However, on fights with magical tank busters your cooldowns usually have to all be reserved for them just because of how they're timed out (outside of bulwark but that's a trash skill for tank busters anyway). The big problem I see with paladin right now actually has more to do with party wide damage, since there's a lot of it so far and it's pretty much all magic from what I can tell. Basically, you really really want to take a monk or a dark knight. Warrior always gets a spot, so if you don't have a monk then someone needs to put away the shield. Paladin on its own works fine for any boss, but party composition needs push it out. The lower tank stance DPS and high DPS requirements don't help, either.

As far as actual paladin issues (and not party composition issues), I think

1) Shield Swipe is really bad now. Potency is bad, you don't really save that much TP, pacify still doesn't work on anything. However, if it was great and paladin was balanced around it then paladin might be really bad on unblockable bosses.
2) Halone is actually kinda not great also. It's not quite as bad as Power Slash, but WAR and DRK both have higher potency and enmity modifiers on their hate combo, and they have passive damage boosters (dark side/maim). I always figured the potency difference for war/pld was because warrior had to do the maim combo, which of course has no enmity. Paladin has nearly the same ratio of hate:nonhate as warrior now, but Halone doesn't get stronger or anything with Goring Blade on.
3) Divine Veil cooldown is kinda high. If it was any shorter it might be overpowered with some party comps, though (war/pld/mnk/x)
4) The usual filler skills are still filler with extremely limited uses. They're usually great when the opportunity arises to use them, but there's too few opportunities.

[Blueskyy]

How is PLD lack?

In terms of EHPs PLD WAR and DRK are the same but Warriors are more difficult to heal back that's why they have self healing abilities like Equi
5000 dmg on tanks
PLD
16kHP - 4000dmg = 12,000hp (75%)

War
20khp(16000*1.25) - 5000dmg = 15,000hp (75%)

lets say whm heals 3k from cure

PLD
12k+3k=15k (93.75%)

War
15k+3.6k=18.6k (93%)

Even with defiance. Warrior still lose PLD in terms of heal back by 0.75%

While it's true that War have IB. But rmr, Ib only comes to war every 20sec for only 5sec (without infu) on theory. In truth it's only good for predictable burst dmg (and small heal back) with that said it's a VERY good CD, and should be used to it's maximum efficiency. In terms of sustainability, PLD still wins with 20% mitigation thro out and shield(for physical dmg and auto attacks) .

lets compare the Vengance VS sentinel you guys are talking about

PLD Sentinal 40% mitigation 180s (52% with shieldO)
16k-2.4k(5000*0.48) = 13600 (85%)
with Sentinel PLD mitigated 15.625% dmg


War Vengance 30% mitigation
20k(16k*1.25) - 3.5k(5k*0.7) = 16,500 (82.5%)
with vengance warrior mitigated 17.5% dmg

While Vengance looks like it'll mitigate more dmg VS sentinal. In the end PLD still wins because of shield oath from the start.

[Jhadzaan]

Really I think the issue isn't the endgame from what I've heard ingame. They seem to balance out. It's the leveling experience that is where they got shafted IMO. Seriously they need to swap the levels you get Sword Oath and Shield Oath.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

It does balance out. Paladin are superior in A1, A2 savage. It's people who sit around in green dungeon gear and never TOUCH savage that like to come to these forums and complain paladin is underpowered. You've not taken -any- job to it's limit at that point. Paladin are fine and the sooner people stop trying to blame the job for their short comings, the faster those same people can personally improve as players.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

yet WAR is the one that gets on demand 20% universal damage reduction skill.

Well. . . its on demand every 22ish seconds on the global cooldown. Unless you Inner Beast>> Infuriate>> Inner Beast its only going to mitigate damage from 1 skill + 1 auto attack with it.
#Rampart

[Noira]

Why is inner beast even being brought up tho ?

Like inner beast is a 6 second Shield Oath, we literally have to use it every 22 seconds unless is infuriate is up and have to time it right otherwise it is wasted.

On top of pairing it with another cooldown to even have near the same effect as pld does outright,

Also nah I don't feel shafted when I play PLD. PLD has always been the safe route, its a defensive tank ( don't even start with "ALL TANKS ARE DEFENSIVE) it is defensive in the way that it is a tank with more emphasis on defense sacrifcing offense. Whereas War is outright an offensive tank in playstyle (high risk high reward), DRK is in the middle.

PLD is to tanks like WHM is to healers, the safer route.