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  1. #51
    Player
    Muahbec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    254
    Character
    Veigas Shiffer
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    AST doesn't need to be as strong as WHM/SCH. If it was as strong as WHM or as SCH, it would replace both jobs. Also, don't forget that the so called healing cooldowns SCH has are only ways to fill the gap between SCH and WHM/AST. Emergency Tactics transforms Succor in a 300 potency spell, like Medica/Helios, and Adlo in a 600 potency spell, weaker than Cure II/Benefic II. The stats are not the same when applied to the fairy, so the 300 potency heal they do is only 200, similar to Regen and Aspected Benefic (190 potency + 100 regen ticks); with rouse, that fills the gap and allows the fairy to do the same as two regen ticks or one use of Aspected Benefic. Indomitability also uses an Aetherflow stack, which means one less Lustrate or Sacred Soil.
    Stacks are not a problem, a good SCH learns how to aways have a stack when needed, Sacred soil is not THAT useful, so you can keep that stack for another lustrate, use E4E instead, indomitability has a 30 s cooldown as well as ET, aetherflow has a 60 seconds CD, if you manage them well you can aways have stacks at your disposal. You also have the amazing rouse+fey illumination+ whispering dawn combo that provides an AMAZING regen to the entire raid, and if you're burning your stacks, just use dissipate, sure you will lose your fairy but if you're burning through your stacks then probably the fairy's not providing that much help i suppose.
    SCH has a LOT of tools to keep people alive, unlike AST.
    (0)
    Last edited by Muahbec; 08-06-2015 at 06:25 AM.

  2. #52
    Player
    Pentt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    102
    Character
    Ara Hoshizora
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    AST was my first 60. Which following a Bismarck EX clear lead me to leveling my WHM/SCH the next day. The class is fun, but.just isn't in a good spot.

    For the people saying AST is "fine because it's difficult" let me say that the class really isn't much harder than a SCH. In fact I'd say you find it difficult because you and your healing partner have to do so much to make up for your shortcomings.
    (6)

  3. #53
    Player
    TatoRazzino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    364
    Character
    Blair Waldorf
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    I love how people imply that you can overcome the internal mechanics of SCH, but you can't do it as AST. People are assuming that it's a broken job just because they can't play it, it's pathetic. I love the inherent complexity that AST has and how you have to be smart about using everything.
    Also, another thing: don't forget that Fey Illumination is also an AoE, so if use it near an AST/WHM, their AoE regen will also be boosted. It's also a gap filling skill, which is fine. It's a very nice skill to have and boosting both healers is what makes Eos so valuable. SCH is not supposed to be a bad healer, but people deny it's inherent complexity and how it is harder to master than WHM. And they also deny that AST has some tools they only have with cooldowns or with stacks, as if it was not a thing you need to work out.
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player
    Litner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    89
    Character
    Litner Lior
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    snip
    What internal complexity does Astrologian even have? You're not listing any examples! They have LIGHTSPEED as their sole healing cooldown, and they have CARDS.
    (2)

  5. #55
    Player
    Leiloni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    238
    Character
    Leiloni Kahu
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Muahbec View Post
    Sacred soil is not THAT useful, so you can keep that stack for another lustrate, use E4E instead.
    I love E4E as much as the next person but why would you trade a guaranteed 10% less damage on everything hitting you for an RNG based skill that even if it procs may only hit certain targets and not others?
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player
    Litner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    89
    Character
    Litner Lior
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Leiloni View Post
    I love E4E as much as the next person but why would you trade a guaranteed 10% less damage on everything hitting you for an RNG based skill that even if it procs may only hit certain targets and not others?
    There's pros and cons for both but he's arguing E4E (its own seperate cd) versus the potential use of an Aetherflow stack (which can be used for a lot of things)
    (2)

  7. #57
    Player
    TatoRazzino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    364
    Character
    Blair Waldorf
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    In what universe Lightspeed is a HEALING cooldown? It doesn't do anything to your healing output, since it doesn't affect your GCD, only your cast time. If you're trying to use it to top a tank, you're gonna fail every time. It's a skill that allows you to have more breathing room to weave your off GCD skills, just like the Enhanced Benefic trait. Your comments only show how you failed to understand the job in its most basic aspects.
    (1)

  8. #58
    Player
    DkDerek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    159
    Character
    Derek Skyshadow
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    It's not supposed to replace either a sch or a whm? It needs to. Theres 2 healing slots, and 3 classes. If its unable to replace, it doesn't have a role in the game. Period. This whole half a healer half a support garbage doesn't work. If a fight is tuned for 1.5 healers, the content is trivial for 2 healers. If its tuned for 2 heals, the support has no place in the raid. Blizz learned this with fistweaving monks 3 years ago.
    (5)

  9. #59
    Player
    Leiloni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    238
    Character
    Leiloni Kahu
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by TatoRazzino View Post
    In what universe Lightspeed is a HEALING cooldown? It doesn't do anything to your healing output, since it doesn't affect your GCD, only your cast time. If you're trying to use it to top a tank, you're gonna fail every time. It's a skill that allows you to have more breathing room to weave your off GCD skills, just like the Enhanced Benefic trait. Your comments only show how you failed to understand the job in its most basic aspects.
    While it may be useful for that we don't have to use oGCD's enough to need an ability like that. The ones we do have I can use without Lightspeed and have no issue. I think initially it was supposed to be a mobility skill (albeit a poorly designed one) and now for me at least, it functions primarily as a means to conserve mana (akin to Freecure's benefits for the WHM) but still is useful when you need to move and heal at the same time. That is at least one (small) niche that AST currently can fill.
    (0)

  10. #60
    Player
    DarkmoonVael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,014
    Character
    Darkmoon Vael
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by DkDerek View Post
    It's not supposed to replace either a sch or a whm? It needs to. Theres 2 healing slots, and 3 classes. If its unable to replace, it doesn't have a role in the game. Period. This whole half a healer half a support garbage doesn't work. If a fight is tuned for 1.5 healers, the content is trivial for 2 healers. If its tuned for 2 heals, the support has no place in the raid. Blizz learned this with fistweaving monks 3 years ago.
    I think lots of people forget this fact. It has to compete gainst the other 2 healers for a raid spot. People are fine doing so with SMN vs BLM for caster spot, DRG vs NIN vs MNK for melee, BRD vs MCH for support and likewise for the tanks. Weighing up the pros and cons for each class, analysing them then deciding which they want in a raid spot. But as soon as you suggest that this has to be done for the 3 current healers, there is nothing but short sighted furore from lots of peopke, and nothing but arguments from the polemics and lots based from apologist arguments. Also factor in the new healer class mimics the old 2 in its stances, so comparisons are easy to make.

    AST can do content in so much as WAR in 2.0 could do content. What it cant do is content as well as the other 2 healers in the game, either from the perspective of HPS or DPS (cue lots of people going "but it buffs" without being able to substantiate their claims on how useful buffs are).

    AST needs tweeking and help, it doesn't need the complete overhaul that some people are claiming, as at its core it has the basis of a very good and rewarding healing class.

    Nor does it need to be left as is as other claim, as it can not heal to the same standard as the other 2 healers, and its buffs are too lacklaster and underwhelming to make up for this shortfall in healing capacity.
    (5)

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