Am I the only one fed up with DPS obsession?

[Dante_V]

If they didn't want healers to dps, they wouldn't have dps abilities. It's frustrating seeing people say that tanks and/or healers essentially have to do two jobs, while dps only has to do one. This is an incorrect way of thinking. Fact is, you should be utilizing every tool you have been given. THAT is your job.

And the player who utilize every tool effectively are GOOD at their job. If you believe in strict roles then savage is not for you. Savage is about pushing beyond those roles FOR THE TEAM CLEAR. If you want to just do the casual "I am a healer I just wanna heal" thing that is absolutely fine. Just wait a bit until you get better gear and that will absolutely be viable. The rest of us like the challenge of trying to undergear content and push for a clear against all odds.

[Alisi]

snip

That's nonsense. A healer still needs to get to end game to be able to raid. And it IS two jobs.

This is the one thing in the game I really dislike (thus I don't raid...) When I play a healer, I want to heal. That's why I play a healer. I like the challenge of healing -- when it's actually challenging and there's stuff to heal.

Honestly, I think it's laziness on SE's part. They should specifically make raids challenging to all three jobs. I've raided in other games where they actually take time to do this. Like in WoW, you can't DPS (unless your a disc priest) because the raid encounters have things that are specific for healers to deal with. They build them around all three, instead of a DPS check all the way down. Certainly, making healers DPS is a way to make them busy but it's still laziness. The special healer things on bosses is what makes healing raids for healers fun, not DPSing.

[Isala]

Like in WoW, you can't DPS (unless your a disc priest) because the raid encounters have things that are specific for healers to deal with. The special healer things on bosses is what makes healing raids for healers fun, not DPSing.

I don't know what WoW you were playing, but every healer was supposed to DPS as well. Disc was just the best healer WHILE DPSing. Holy had a Chakra for that. Fistweaving was a thing. I know you can't have forgotten Shockadins. Even Druids and Shamans were supposed to DPS. I know for a fact there was some bonus for my heals if I DPSed while healing on a Shaman. And tanks there were also supposed to DPS. That's why they made Vengeance a thing, so even the MT could beat things down. So if you're going to use WoW as an example of why healers should get to be lazy and not DPS, you're doing it wrong.

[Alisi]

snip

I've never been in a raid that wanted healers to DPS. I've been in plenty where healers were kicked for DPSing, though.

Each healer had specific spells that would give them MP back and Disc healed with their DPS attack. Fist weaving WAS a thing but that also healed and buffed their healing. They took that out with the new explanation. Shockadins were a thing only in TBC and a bit of Wrath. Shaman's got MP back with their bolt. And I've never seen a holy priest switch chakra's in the middle of a raid to DPS. Druids got that free wraith.

Every actual DPS spell a healer had was directly linked to their healing in some way and it was always iffy when you used them. WoW has DPS checks like The Butcher in HM with its short enrage timer, but they also put in the enormous healing aspect of that as well. Make the DPS attacks healers have relevant to our healing or make the raid bosses with healers in mind. That's not really all that much to ask for.

[Nurvus]

I don't know what WoW you were playing, but every healer was supposed to DPS as well. Disc was just the best healer WHILE DPSing. Holy had a Chakra for that. Fistweaving was a thing. I know you can't have forgotten Shockadins. Even Druids and Shamans were supposed to DPS. I know for a fact there was some bonus for my heals if I DPSed while healing on a Shaman. And tanks there were also supposed to DPS. That's why they made Vengeance a thing, so even the MT could beat things down. So if you're going to use WoW as an example of why healers should get to be lazy and not DPS, you're doing it wrong.

Not only you are making stuff up (because in WoW healers spend 101% of the time healing at the highest difficulties), you completely missed the point Alisi was trying to make.
Alisi was talking about wanting encounters to challenge a Healer through Healing-related mechanics.
When Healing is trivial and what makes a good healer is how much DPS he can do while healing, then that's not challenging his ability to Heal.

[Isala]

Not only you are making stuff up (because in WoW healers spend 101% of the time healing at the highest difficulties), you completely missed the point Alisi was trying to make.
Alisi was talking about wanting encounters to challenge a Healer through Healing-related mechanics.
When Healing is trivial and what makes a good healer is how much DPS he can do while healing, then that's not challenging his ability to Heal.

Alright. Time to drop some knowledge.

Let's start with Shamans. Conductivity. Level 75 Talent. Extends the duration of your Healing Rain while you cast DPS spells. Telluric Currents. Level 10 ability. Causes several DPS spells to have no DPS cost... But we're not supposed to DPS.

Monks. I don't even have to go into their talents. They were literally designed around causing healing while they DPS. Hence the term FISTWEAVING.

Druids. Heart of the Wild. Increases your ability to do literally anything but heal. Level 90 Talent. OR, in that very same tier, Nature's Vigil. For 30 seconds all attacks and heals radiate healing effect to nearby allies. 20% for heals, 40%! for attacks. But Druids aren't supposed to attack either.

Paladins. Supplication. Level 34 ability. For 8 seconds after YOU KILL AN ENEMY, your Flash of Light (healing spell) will be increased by 50% and has 100% increased Critical Chance. Selfless healer. Level 45 Talent. Your Judgements (attack spell) reduce the Mana cost and cast time of your Flash of Light. Stacks 3 times. Nope! No DPS here.

Priests. Discipline Priest. Atonement. I really don't have to say a damn thing after this.

Priests. Holy Priest. Power Word: Solace. Level 45 Talent. Strike an enemy to regain mana, and heal a nearby target for 100% of the damage, or 50% if it heals the Priest. Twist of Fate. Level 75 Healer Talent. Increases damage and healing dealt when healing a target below 35% Or how about the big one. Chakra: Chastise. Level 56 Ability. Increases the damage of Shadow and Holy spells by 50%. Converts your Holy Word spell into Holy Word: Chastise. Which is an attack, if you didn't know. But nope. Even with a stance for DPSing, priests aren't supposed to DPS, either.

Next time you wanna call me out for posting incorrect information, maybe you should actually know what you are talking about yourself. Every single healer in the game had a bonus to their healing somewhere along the way if they DPSed as well, or in Holy Priest's case, a complete DPS stance.

Just like here, a healer could add to the DPS of the group, but unlike here, it was actually partially beneficial to the healer itself to do so. Here, there is no reason to DPS as a healer, other than to add to the DPS. In WoW, you increased your power by alternating DPS and healing abilities. No. You were not supposed to go ham on the boss, like you are here. That's not what I was saying. I was saying that yeah, you did DPS. Maybe not fully, but you were always tossing something at the boss to keep your stacks up. When you tie in Mana regen into several offensive abilities, you really had no choice, unless you wanted to go OOM. A healer who did not DPS a little was gimping themselves, and by extension their party.

Do I like the fact that the challenge is to push out as much DPS as possible, while keeping the minimum amount of heals required for your group? Hell no. But let's be real here. That's not going to change. There will always be healers expected to DPS during fights that require DPS checks. When your DPS classes can't cut it, the burden falls onto the tanks and healers to make it up. Is there another way to design an encounter, though? That's really the question. When there are hard enrages, you have no choice but to put out as much damage as possible. But if you don't put in hard enrages, people cheese the fight completely. Look at T2 for a good example of that.

[Alisi]

SNIP.

Do you even know how the specs in WoW work? You get ONE of the three spells and no healer would take your choices.

Conductivity over Rushing Streams? LMAO! No Pally healer will take Selfless healer over Eternal Flame. Heart of the Wild INCREASES HEALING by 35% when you're a resto druid. A holy priest won't take Solace over mind bender or surge of light.

No healer would DPS above what they need to do to get MP back or heal or buff their heals. Healing is much easier and lighter in this game. You have all sorts of things you take for granted. In WoW, you can't DPS above what you need for the above because of MP issues. That's part of the healing game in WoW. You get ONE single pot for an entire fight, a very limited pool of battle revs, and most of the OMG spells cost a great deal. No one can waste their MP on DPS unless it's working for their healing in some way.

[Moqi]

Honestly, I think it's laziness on SE's part. They should specifically make raids challenging to all three jobs.

Well said. There are so few mechanics for healers. I'd rather spend my time dealing with those instead of DPSing because there is nothing else to do.

[Alisi]

SNIP

Glad I'm not the only one! I love this game but the healing aspect is disappointing. It feels a bit like we're glorified DPS with some extra buttons. In other games, it felt like our contributions mattered. You'd heal for Thok and it was healers that ultimately controlled the phases he went into or you'd get bosses that you'd have to heal up (or half heal, half kill) or there'd be mobs that need to be healed fully else there'd be raid wide damage after a very short time or debuff that multiply like bunnies if not caught and removed the second after they were placed on the raid member.

There was none of this 'oh, you're a bad healer because you're not DPSing your heart out' because there was a role for you and it was important, and recognized and respected for what it was. You were a good healer because you could deal with all that and keep the raid alive, not because you were good at DPSing while raiding.

[Nurvus]

Alright. Time to drop some knowledge.

SNIP

You could copy-paste all the information about WoW that you want, but if you try to say that - on content you and your group do NOT overgear - you don't have to focus 99% of your effort on healing, then you ARE indeed making stuff up.

And even when you do DPS as a healer in WoW, it is always directly or indirectly improving your Healing which does NOT happen in FFXIV:ARR.
Example:
Priest's Atonement heals based on your damage with Smite/Holy Fire, so you are still Healing.
Druid's Nature's Vigil makes you heal when you damage.

And I don't mind DPSing as a Healer.
But the main challenge for a Healer should be healing, and in FFXIV:ARR it does not seem to be the case.