Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[LandricFrey]

That's right, friends, it's this thread again!

As of this writing, Final Fantasy XIV is in a rut. Heavensward is a bland rehash or the 2.X series. (Unless you count enabling players to fly over vast, forgettable landscapes, or the addition of three new jobs, which are near duplicates of three older vocations.)

To spice things up, there are numerous new systems that may be introduced, but I would like to reopen the discussion about adding a way to let players fine tune their favorite jobs to closer match their playstyles. As it stands the only difference between two people playing the same job is gear, along with the 30+ stat points to put in one of two stats actually needed by your job. We can customize greatly how we look, but why not how we play our jobs? One of my favorite aspects of the Final Fantasy series has been character playstyle customization, most notably : FF5, FF7, FFT, and yes, FF11 ONLINE.

Why should we have the ability to customize our jobs?
Players could enjoy imagining fun, creative builds, even knowing that they may not be the perfect choices. Besides, those “perfect” builds may not work best for some players. The fun is finding what works best for you.

It would open up certain jobs to those who would never play because it is stuck with a single role. I know of plenty of people who would love to be a Paladin if only it weren't a tank role only. This would also solve many player’s gripes over the Dark Knight being categorized as a tank.

An added feature to the game that would draw in players on the fence or simply turned off by how simple or bland the jobs are.

Invalidating the *takes hat off and holds it over chest* "Everyone will just chose the optimal build" argument.

That's just not true. If it were, then why aren't we all playing the optimal dps, tank, or healer jobs? (I understand simple group composition. It was an example. My point stands. We could all be playing one of the best four dps, considering a full party, but we don't.)
Because we all don't enjoy playing the mathematically solved "best" job. Builds wouldn't be any different as they're just a playstyle choice as the job itself.

Weak arguments against this idea:
1. “Choice is an Illusion.” If I understand correctly, this is one of three player types.
a) Those who are punished by difficult content to the point of needing perfect builds just to get by.
b) Players who want the very best set up so they can perform their best.
c) Those who haven’t the time, interest, or are scared to make their own decisions.

False. All of those players would chose to look up a premade optimal build to enhance their experience, effectively giving them but one choice. Nothing would change for them except the fact that they have made a decision.

2. “It would be hard for the devs to do.” More variables would lead to further imbalance, ultimately breaking the game.

False.The challenge would be greater, though I still wouldn't argue this when we have the some of the most talented devs in the world working on this game. There are other games out there with a balanced custom class system in place. There’s no reason SE couldn't do it and do it better!

3. “The mess that’s already the Duty Finder would only get worse. People who have made poor choices may potentially join the DF keeping me from completing content."

False. This is a self-inflicted wound whereas the more difficult content in any MMO should not be attempted with random players. If they are struggling in a low dungeon, a little kind advice goes a long way and completion would be possible. As I see it, if you're so against it then DF should be a last resort, not your primary go-to for content completion. Try the Party Finder. Join an active FC. Go make some friends who share your playstyle and have fun again. IMO that is the true spirit of the MMO.

Ultimately it is up to SE on if and how to implement such a feature, though I’d like to throw out some suggestions:

A combination of FFXI and ARR:
Pick a subjob or a combination of two where the player may take most of the lvl 1-30 abilities. (with a 5-10 cross-skill maximum)

More fun with Traits:
Sure we could cross-class them, but what about adding trait materia? Most equipment would have 1 or 2 trait slots which anyone could socket no matter the profession.

Talent Trees: (Yes I know they’re cliché, though anything would be an improvement.)
(WHM)
+1-5 points to raise all magic healing potency 1-5%
+1-5 points to reduce casting time by 5-25%
+1-3 points to increase Cure 2 potency by 5-15%
+1-2 points to increase max MP by 5-10%... and on and on.

FF9 inspired system
Instead of learning abilities from equipped armor as it was in FF9, why not add traits, buffs, and various ability upgrades by spiritbonding lvl 51-60 gear. The bonuses could be attached to the gear or they could be attained from the gear.

The first option would make just simple stat comparisons to armor a thing of the past and add another deciding factor to player choice. An example for a healer would be: One piece of gear has a trait that gives + 3% increase in healing potency while the other piece of gear has a trait which makes Esuna or Leeches a party-wide ability.

The other option would award the player the bonus after spiritbond, and then could be slotted as a bonus trait for the player's job regardless of whether or not the player has the piece equipped. There would only be a limited amount of slots available to keep a player from becoming too powerful. This would be a meaningful way we could have alternate builds for our jobs.

Something I've forgotten? Agree, disagree, or agree to disagree? Then I want to hear more from the community. An official statement on the subject would also be much appreciated.

If anyone can come up with more suggestions on how SE could go about implementing such a system, please post here and I will add it to my original post with proper credit given, of course.

Tl;dr? Well then, you're out of luck.

[SovereignAegis]

I RREAAAAAAAAALYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WANT THIS.

No really. I get that people like homogenization for it's virtues but OH MY GOD customization is one thing that this game DESPERATELY NEEDS.

Like as a Scholar I have the EXACT same skills as ANY OTHER scholar. Exactly the same kits. Traits, skills, fairy, etc. Everything is the EXACT same.

Now with Scholar we could have like 3 different major branches? (We could do skilltrees, "rune pages" like from LoL, or any of the plethora of different ways games have implemented diversity! There are TONS of different methods!)

#1: have options to put some enhancements into debuffs such as maybe a 5% damage reduction from an enemy from bio or maybe a 5% increase in damage taken debuff (3s duration?) from broil. I only say 5% because I want to keep things balanced. Or maybe Virus could also increase damage taken by 5%? Or put a 10% stun chance on DoTs ticking.

#2: Or the Scholar could invest into putting skillpoints into buffing their fairy. Such as maybe Selene's buff has 2% faster, (5% up from 3%) or maybe EOS's fey illumination has a 20s shorter cooldown.

#3: Or the Scholar could invest into increasing their shields or their heal power. Like maybe galvanize increases party members resistance to damage by 10% while it is up.

I just... really like where this game could go with this idea.



ORR with like Bard we could have like a tree (example) where we could invest heavily into buffing and support abilities or into raw damage. It could be just amazing.

[Vickii]

The truth is.. that someone will find an optimal build and 95% of players will use that build. Regardless of their end game aspirations. Also people will get called out and 'bullied' if they don't perform amazing while not using the optimal build. The fights will be arranged around said build and then people will complain that their talent is useless etc. It's a lot more work for the developers for little profit.

I like the idea, love it. But in practise it really doesn't work, almost all MMO's with talent choices have that problem.

[Risvertasashi]

The truth is.. that someone will find an optimal build and 95% of players will use that build. Regardless of their end game aspirations. Also people will get called out and 'bullied' if they don't perform amazing while not using the optimal build. The fights will be arranged around said build and then people will complain that their talent is useless etc. It's a lot more work for the developers for little profit.

I like the idea, love it. But in practise it really doesn't work, almost all MMO's with talent choices have that problem.

Easy fix to at least one of those: Don't let others see how you have spec'd.

If they're effectively as potent as the off-stat system, it won't really matter how people build anyways.

[LandricFrey]

The truth is.. that someone will find an optimal build and 95% of players will use that build. Regardless of their end game aspirations. Also people will get called out and 'bullied' if they don't perform amazing while not using the optimal build. The fights will be arranged around said build and then people will complain that their talent is useless etc. It's a lot more work for the developers for little profit.

I like the idea, love it. But in practise it really doesn't work, almost all MMO's with talent choices have that problem.

This counts as argument number 1:“Choice is an Illusion.” Which my counter argument is:All of those players would chose to look up a premade optimal build to enhance their experience, effectively giving them but one choice. Nothing would change for them except the fact that they have made a decision. This is more of a hardcore player issue, but already we have no choice. What this does is let people who aren't hardcore have a choice. And it does work in every MMO that uses it. yes people bully, they will be bullies if you don't have the right gear, so they will be bullies for having the "wrong" setup. Play with friends, or just ignore these people. If you get kicked, that's harassment. Bullying is going to happen either way.

[Risvertasashi]

Bullying is going to happen either way.

Sort of true, but if SE puts in a build system, there's no reason they have to let other players see how you have built.

Us raiders will do our thing and if we're having problems, yeah, raid leaders might suggest people go with a certain build. For any content that's in the DF, though, it just won't matter.

[Duelle]

This counts as argument number 1:“Choice is an Illusion.” Which my counter argument is:All of those players would chose to look up a premade optimal build to enhance their experience, effectively giving them but one choice. Nothing would change for them except the fact that they have made a decision. This is more of a hardcore player issue, but already we have no choice. What this does is let people who aren't hardcore have a choice.

Giving people the choice to be mediocre is no choice at all. We'd go back to the scenario of Souleater Recast merits vs Arcane Circle Recast merits. One is actually useful, the other one is a waste of code. All you'd be doing is inviting the type of problems that are known to work with "specs" (people getting ridiculed for not going the optimal route). This is why I'd push customization in the direction of aesthetics rather than gameplay. There's plenty of ways to do it without creating even bigger problems among the playerbase.

I would be happy to have a Spell Speed Mage with the Ability to have enough Movement or a Heavy Damage Dealing Mage with slowed Movement. *Does look at Nexus System from FFXIII*

Except the one that deals most damage will rule over the other.

I wish I could be either a Ice Mage or a Fire Mage....hell or even Lightning or something.
I honestly like the ice element better than fire. :/ I wish they could give us a choice but both be equal.

I'd go for somehow swapping particle effects and spell names around over changing BLM at the baseline. Granted, the job is built around it using all its elements.

XI tried what you're asking with elemental affinity merits, but that quickly became "spec into lightning or ice or GTFO".

[Sandpark]

Giving people the choice to be mediocre is no choice at all. We'd go back to the scenario of Souleater Recast merits vs Arcane Circle Recast merits. One is actually useful, the other one is a waste of code. All you'd be doing is inviting the type of problems that are known to work with "specs" (people getting ridiculed for not going the optimal route).

In tight group based content, it would be a waste of code because SE cannot make a dungeon make every jobs skill matter.

Except the one that deals most damage will rule over the other.

In groups as they get larger. Of course if a party takes a DPS, they will want the higher DPS. In low man or solo open world content. That DPS wouldn't be as much required, especially if you couldn't heal yourself much at all or have a survivable build for things that don't die fast.

I'd go for somehow swapping particle effects and spell names around over changing BLM at the baseline. Granted, the job is built around it using all its elements.

XI tried what you're asking with elemental affinity merits, but that quickly became "spec into lightning or ice or GTFO".

In FFXI and FFXIV. You were stuck into one type of gameplay, repeating the same spells. In FFXI it was because even though you could spec into a fire build, most things were weak to lightning and ice.

In FFXIV you are still casting the same spell over and over. But here it isn't because monster identity is trended one way. It's because there is no monster identity in terms of weaknesses. At least in the former, there was some variation.

I still don't think job personalization would work with jobs and how they are designed for focused group content. But they could create open world low man content or public events filling a need for customization that could be done in classes.

[Vickii]

And it does work in every MMO that uses it.

I kinda disagree on this. I only really see customisation working in way of specs (which is basically just another class and all specs have little customisation within them) or with really basic choices. which boil down to the same thing.

For example 'drop feather on ground which gives player run speed' vs 'cast x spell on player which gives them run speed'. That's the only time when people have a choice that doesn't imbalance the game or 'nerf' the player for choosing it. Even then people still tend to flock to the same thing.

Honestly, i don't believe it works in most MMO's.

[Nadirah]

The truth is.. that someone will find an optimal build and 95% of players will use that build. Regardless of their end game aspirations. Also people will get called out and 'bullied' if they don't perform amazing while not using the optimal build. The fights will be arranged around said build and then people will complain that their talent is useless etc. It's a lot more work for the developers for little profit.

I like the idea, love it. But in practise it really doesn't work, almost all MMO's with talent choices have that problem.

This.

False.The challenge would be greater, though I still wouldn't argue this when we have the some of the most talented devs in the world working on this game. There are other games out there with a balanced custom class system in place. There’s no reason SE couldn't do it and do it better!

Balance is already a bitch and you want to make it even harder?