Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Gilthas]

Wanting nothing is not a suggestion!

And I didn't suggest that. I was directly responding to the passive/agressive post that was insulting players who acknowledge the glaring problems of specializations/customization.

Whenever someone makes a suggestion they more often than not have the tendency to pretend that everything will just be roses. What you want will bring about some obvious problems and it's perfectly reasonable for other players to oppose them.

[Dhex]

And I didn't suggest that. I was directly responding to the passive/agressive post that was insulting players who acknowledge the glaring problems of specializations/customization.

Whenever someone makes a suggestion they more often than not have the tendency to pretend that everything will just be roses. What you want will bring about some obvious problems and it's perfectly reasonable for other players to oppose them.

Theoretically we should all be able to parse exactly the same and move and perform rotations exactly the same play the best Job choice and be perfectly optimal; but we're not computers.
Currently Jobs have no wiggle room, and content only has enough wiggle room to allow for different Job combinations.

How can you claim that their is a negative consequence to something before the developers even try it?

There is already a "best" and the other options are just illusions right? Why bother putting in three gear sets when only one or two pieces are any good?
Why bother giving players allocated stat bonuses?
Why give us different races?

When BiS gear, best stat allotment, best Job for a specific party slot - why not eliminate everything that isn't "best"?

The truth is it's all irrelevant so - why not add customization and give the game some depth - if it's imbalanced things get changed, Jobs come in and out of style - apparently there is already a right/best way to do things already anyway.

Remember when Black Mage was the only caster to bring to anything? I do.

[Duelle]

How can you claim that there is a negative consequence to something before the developers even try it?

Prior experience and frame of reference. We've seen it happen before, and to expect it to not happen despite evidence to the contrary is foolhardy.

There is already a "best" and the other options are just illusions right? Why bother putting in three gear sets when only one or two pieces are any good?

That's called progression. You use the "lesser" gear until you either got the tokens or was blessed by the RNG to get the "best" piece of gear. Right now you either get your law tome gear until you have enough for esoterics or get lucky with drops in Alexander. You get esoterics gear and use that until you get lucky with drops in Alexander Savage. It's not a stretch of logic like you're trying to present it.

To reiterate what I said earlier, you can have customization, but in the form of aesthetics. Merits that change spell visual effects or give you flavor abilities and things of that sort (because really, what BLM wouldn't want to be able to sprout Black Waltz wings and fly around areas with flight allowed?). Not something that'll change combat, but helps flesh out jobs and their place in-game. This way you get to stand out without leading to adverse effects to game balance.

[DreadRabbit]

Merits that change spell visual effects or give you flavor abilities and things of that sort (because really, what BLM wouldn't want to be able to sprout Black Waltz wings and fly around areas with flight allowed?). Not something that'll change combat, but helps flesh out jobs and their place in-game. This way you get to stand out without leading to adverse effects to game balance.

Now changing visuals of spells we already have sounds awesome to me. Like Fire 3 is still Fire 3 in your hot bar, but when cast it looks like a gust of wind or ice instead. That way those who want to rp or prefer the visuals of other elements could have that but not screw around with combat balance. (I didn't play FFXI so forgive me if I'm grossly misunderstanding this idea).

[Sandpark]

To reiterate what I said earlier, you can have customization, but in the form of Merits that change spell visual effects or give you flavor abilities and things of that sort (because really, what BLM wouldn't want to be able to sprout Black Waltz wings and fly around areas with flight allowed?). Not something that'll change combat, but helps flesh out jobs. This way you get to stand out without leading to adverse effects to game balance.

What you say sounds cool. FFXI already had that in emote quest things. I completely did not care for it. But then again, I am not someone who cares for messing around with glamours or aesthetician.

I would prefer the effects to look cool already and wouldn't want to merit that. I agree with the understanding though. Customization of jobs would lead to balancing problems in tight group content. But there is nothing stopping SE from creating more variation in the open world and in solo low man stuff. There balance doesn't have to be so stiff or vertical if horizontal mambos are available to classes solely. Exactly the failed intent that original team aimed for but missed. Classes are for solo/low man, jobs are for parties.

This game already has group content in spades, the variation of it is the only things people have been complaining about, not the amount.

One job or class change I would like to see changed are how tier 1 ice or fire spells behave. I would like to see them be changed to either auto attack or how other games would do it and have it be constant or instant cast and the damage tuned. And the ability to cast while moving. In dungeons that might upset things as far as making things more kite-able. But in the open world in more open content(in cases where balance is not as big a deal) it would make combat more engaging.

[Vinestra]

How can you claim that their is a negative consequence to something before the developers even try it?

Theres a simple way to tell of the negative consequences, you look at other games that did it, the same way people found out that standing in fire is you know.. Bad. It has documented reasons as to why it can be bad and often times is bad.

[Bishop81]

Theres a simple way to tell of the negative consequences, you look at other games that did it, the same way people found out that standing in fire is you know.. Bad. It has documented reasons as to why it can be bad and often times is bad.

The first couple of attempts at heavier than air powered flight ended in failure. The Wright brothers were fools to try it. Morons.

[LandricFrey]

Theres a simple way to tell of the negative consequences, you look at other games that did it, the same way people found out that standing in fire is you know.. Bad. It has documented reasons as to why it can be bad and often times is bad.

I've lost track of all the MMO's I've played over the past 15+ years that have had class builds and I can tell you that I, nor anyone I've known has never stopped playing a single one because of the class system. The real reasons are along the lines of muddy graphics, ugly character models, cringe-worthy stories, toxic communities, lack of content, major glitches, but never the class customization.

So why have many games opted out then? A trend that began with the big "W." and when you have a game that was that successful, of course the competition will follow suite, whether it was a good idea or not.

[Vinestra]

One of the major reasons people said they stopped playing WoW in cataclysm was because Blizzard kept flip flopping on what class/specs where good for the time

[Kallera]

And I didn't suggest that. I was directly responding to the passive/agressive post that was insulting players who acknowledge the glaring problems of specializations/customization.

Whenever someone makes a suggestion they more often than not have the tendency to pretend that everything will just be roses. What you want will bring about some obvious problems and it's perfectly reasonable for other players to oppose them.

Reasonable!? Then why the hell am i pidgeonholed behind stat caps and endless waves of token gear? Why does crafting get less enjoyable time and again?!

I played a rdm in xi, i switched to thf and dnc, i played with various builds, even if i didn't have the rarest of gear, and i left not because of the job system.

I simply agreed with the op. I don't believe the game is perfect, haven't since the beta.
And it isn't insanity to think this shouldn't be all that the game ever is.