Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Airget]

All the "weak" arguments are major faults in skill trees.
It will always boil down to the most optimal builds and class which Yoshi-P doesn't want.

This, it just makes the game harder to balance overall because in essence this is what you do.

We have 3 tanks, 3 healers and 7 DPS jobs.

With that each one has one way of playing no variables so content is based on how 13 jobs play.

Add specialization and you amplify it based on options, give each class 10 option now you have 130 variables to keep in mind rather than 13, wherein you could make contnet that is easy for one setup but impossible for another and then what, all you do is have people continuously resetting their skills to always be the most optimal. To create content around an open ended skill system just makes it harder to create an engaging and challenging PVE experience.

You kinda gotta think of it like this, in chess do you get to choose what pieces you want to start with? Why not wouldn't it give you more options, allow you to do more, to optimize how best to play. The reason for the limitations is because you learn to work with what you got, each ability is a chess piece and it's using those abilities to the best of their effect that makes you more effective. It's that mentality that allows for challenging content like Savage mode and primal extremes to be made because the creators can base the content around the constants of the jobs and not have to consider the variables that each job "could" have.

[Reaperking386]

You can look at every game that has a talent system and it always will boil down to the optimal specs. Wow tried to rid themselves of this plague, but they still could not.

[DreadRabbit]

Part of the reason why WoW, Rift, etc. games offer those variation specs is because you can only play one class per character. The only way to play other classes is to create a new character entirely and start from scratch. And no, not everyone is an alt-o-holic, so a solution had to be made so that they weren't stuck doing the exact same thing over and over again. Thus specs were born to help give variety. Even in GW2 with all of it's variety, you're still the same class you picked from character creation.

But in FF14 we have the freedom to be any class/job at any one time. We can cross-class skills into our builds. It's far from perfect but this is a lot more "free" compared to spec games because I can actually play other roles and experiment without starting over again in story and exploration. We need more customization, yes, but it needs to work with the system we have. Traditional skill trees aren't going to do it. Picking between 3 specs for 13 different classes and planning gear for all of them doesn't sound fun to me.

But that's also just me.

[RiceisNice]

Ok what I hear a lot is: "Everyone will just pick the optimal build."

That's just not true. If it were, then why are we all not playing the optimal dps, tank, or healer jobs?
Because we all don't enjoy playing the mathematically solved "best" job. Build choice wouldn't be any different.

If we don't like choice so much, then why isn't there just three jobs; one for every role so we're all equal? Why don't they just start us all in BIS gear so no one gets bullied and we can all clear content more reliably? Sounds fun to you?

People do this already. It's called group composition. Most cutting edge groups are actually foregoing AST because their healing output isn't quite up to snuff, nor do their card buffs really make up for it. Most groups go for a 2 melee, 2 ranged setup because it's the most optimal.

Why don't groups take 4 DRGs when they're arguably the highest dps? Why not four bards when they technically have the best damage uptime?

[StrejdaTom]

I get that optional build argument but they could make the talents so good that there would be atleast 2 optional builds. Then there would still be a chance of some choice. There are a few MMOs that have around 3 - 4 viable builds for every class and you just have to chose your playstyle. I think it could work here too, they would just to have to put a lot of effort into the talent system and not make half of the talents just fillers that no one will chose.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Ok what I hear a lot is: "Everyone will just pick the optimal build."

That's just not true. If it were, then why are we all not playing the optimal dps, tank, or healer jobs

Because any differences between jobs are not so great that you're boned for having a team of, let's say 2 DRKs, 2 WHMs, and 4 BRDs.

It is true that people will gravitate towards the best set up in regards to end game content. When I played PAYDAY 2, a game that brags about letting customize how you want your skills to be, none of that mattered when it came to Death Wish difficulty; everyone went for dodge based builds because those let you survive longer than using heavy armor. Playing with armor made you a liability and even if you could pull your own weight, no one wanted to take a risk because the difficulty level didn't allow any room for experimentation. That's what would happen in this game's raids; go with what the crowd wants you to be or get out.

[justinjarjar]

I get that optional build argument but they could make the talents so good that there would be atleast 2 optional builds. Then there would still be a chance of some choice. There are a few MMOs that have around 3 - 4 viable builds for every class and you just have to chose your playstyle. I think it could work here too, they would just to have to put a lot of effort into the talent system and not make half of the talents just fillers that no one will chose.

People are mainly looking at track records with skill trees, most of the 3-4 builds is created more because you are locked into one class and the game is designed to play one class. Which gives you options within the class (and in many ways/times vastly changes how the class plays), FF14 is set up to have multiple classes at max level and lets say you are not feeling bard today you could play WHM and heal or play BLM to play magic dps, etc.

[Felis]

*brings elemental wheel back*
*watches black mages flail about trying to do big damage to Ifrit with low potency Blizzard spells*

Try it with wind
Fire is strong against ice


fire -> ice -> wind -> fire
water -> earth -> lightning -> water

[justinjarjar]

Try it with wind
Fire is strong against ice

So what you are telling me is bring 4 blms with me to fight shiva?

[Felis]

So what you are telling me is bring 4 blms with me to fight shiva?

or 4 MNK if Fist of Fire give the attacks fire damage again like it was during 1.x (with steady mp cost while the skill is active and int increase the fire damage)