Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[DreadRabbit]

Again, allow customization of Classes and don't allow them in raids.

"Fine tuned teamwork" is not the whole game you know.

...it's a party-based MMO. Sorry, but yes, "fine tuned teamwork" is supposed to be the whole game. Or at least part of the combat aspect of the game.

Also we already have this in being able to play any job at any time. If they're so similar as people keep saying then why do you insist on differentiating the class you already play? The only class/jobs that don't have much choice in variation are the bards and machinists. Everyone else gets variations on basic play points simply by switching a weapon. It encourages people to try new roles. Specs seem more like an excuse to just continue playing one class and one class only. Which yeah, people will do anyway, but you made that choice.

[Bishop81]

...it's a party-based MMO. Sorry, but yes, "fine tuned teamwork" is supposed to be the whole game. Or at least part of the combat aspect of the game.

Also we already have this in being able to play any job at any time. If they're so similar as people keep saying then why do you insist on differentiating the class you already play? The only class/jobs that don't have much choice in variation are the bards and machinists. Everyone else gets variations on basic play points simply by switching a weapon. It encourages people to try new roles. Specs seem more like an excuse to just continue playing one class and one class only. Which yeah, people will do anyway, but you made that choice.

Bullcrap.

WoW style raids - where the whole group is punished for the failings of a few leading to exclusionary and toxic behavior - aren't the only type of group content possible.

[zcrash970]

Bullcrap.

WoW style raids - where the whole group is punished for the failings of a few leading to exclusionary and toxic behavior - aren't the only type of group content possible.

No, it isn't. However, mmos are usually balanced with accordance to the hardest current content i.e. raids. Everything else is practically built around that.

[DreadRabbit]

Bullcrap.

WoW style raids - where the whole group is punished for the failings of a few leading to exclusionary and toxic behavior - aren't the only type of group content possible.

The exact same thing is happening in DF by people not wanting to help the team by playing their role properly. To the point where even MSQ dungeons can't be cleared because of "I'll play how I want to play". Jerks exist at all levels, not just raids.


What does adding a spec to a class you already play really change in terms of customization other than control of numbers? The specs in WoW and other games really don't change how a class plays at a basic level. "I want an ice BLM or a thunder BLM" (for example). Okay...the ice spells would probably still induce slow and heavy and given the trend thunder spells would still be dots. So if you specialized in say thunder, you'd be specializing in dots. Oh wait, SMN already specializes in dots, so that spec is more "samey" to another job than BLM as it is now.

That's more what I'm getting at. What radical spec choices would you implement for classes that would keep their core gameplay but would actually be worth the time to insert the change?

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^This post x100000%

[Izsha]

Again, allow customization of Classes and don't allow them in raids.

"Fine tuned teamwork" is not the whole game you know. I don't see why the whole game has to be designed around the needs of raiders.

So you can have your healing dragoon spec so you can solo you daily hints for 10 centurion seals? Duty finder IS the game. There is no real content in the open world that has any real value. The only things that can even kill a player outside of DF are dragonskin maps, S ranks, and the 3 super fate chains, Odin and behemoth. The entirety of open world aside from those are easily done with any job and a choco.

You want to remake the entire game so you can do fates as you tank spec dragoon or your dps drk? No thanks.

This is a theme park mmo. The actual meat of the game is in duty finder and all this dream of a balanced multi class multi spec game wont work there. When a dark joins my group for expert roulette they need to be tanking, not healing because that's how they want to play. If you want to heal today, go hop on a healer. If you want to melee, range, or caster spec today, hop on those classes. The game has specs. They are called jobs and you can change on a whim any day you like.

Edit:
I also see no one could muster up a single example of a teamwork oriented game that successfully pulled this off ever in the history of mmos. Instead people deflect and try to claim this theme park mmo isnt atually a team coordination jump rope game. Dont be delusional. That's ALL this game is (combat wise anyway) Many games have tried, all have failed, but THIS time will be different! No. It wont. Stop kidding yourself.

[justinjarjar]

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The funny thing is soloing hunts with DRG is easy.

[CorbinDallas]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of seeing suggestions like "implement this feature from 11". This is not Final Fantasy 11, it's Final Fantasy 14.

[Kelg]

"People will only pick the optimal" is completely untrue. If that was so, why do games like Diablo even exist? People like choice. Just because a few elitist blowhards will try to force people into builds doesn't mean everyone will... Just look at extreme primals, and other end game content, you see DPS classes being out damaged by tanks, and they barely ever get called out about it. You wouldn't even have to worry about an optimal build outside of a raid group.

[erufufu]

"People will only pick the optimal" is completely untrue. If that was so, why do games like Diablo even exist?

How much do you play D3? Because it is a game very much about using what is the most optimal. Of course everything is achievable solo so you can use sub optimal builds without affecting others, it is a completely different genre to FFXIV and is a terrible comparison. MMO content is entrenched in team play, most of the content outside of leveling requires you to play with other people, and other people want you to use what is most optimal. You may notice how many posts are made about people being bad at DPS latley, and thats just a result about not using skills in the best order. If there is an Optimal way to play, and the game requires team play people will always use whats most optimal.

[elemental10]

We're trapped in this predicament of wanting for balance and wanting for customization.

In my opinion, balance means that all jobs can have access to all content with the same chance of success. SE made this possible as the central of this game by limiting our choices in customizing our jobs. The most that we can get are cross-class skills that are already phased out in 3.0. That's why you don't see cross-class skills from either DRK or AST or MCH.

Customization destroys this harmony by putting in choices for players. I'm not against it, I'm just explaining the impact of this system. You put in choices, if SE still sticks to their core value, which is all content passable by all, they have to consider the extreme ends of choices. If you give a PLD the choice to be a DPS, there has to a room in all 8 men content to put in a PLD DPS and STILL have the same chance of success. This is how to preserve balance and that requires for you to take a look at lots of other combination of teams.

Can a team take a MNK, and then replace it with a PLD DPS, will they still have the same chance of success? This is why PLD right now is being discriminated from static groups because their extra defensive capabilities do not make the DPS checks bearable. Thus, balance is destroyed and SE do not stick with their main core value.

Customization on paper is great. It sounds awesome, you can have any kinds of playstyle and attracts players to experiment around. But the game is centered and balanced around the raids, Coils, Alexander Savage and so on. If one playstyle cannot make through the content, then people will not choose the class and therefore balance is destroyed. This is the dilemma we're in.

SE wants to have any combination of teams to have equal chance of success.

But I digress.

Job personalization sounds GREAT. It does, yes. But it has to be implemented across the board while abolishing DEPENDENCIES among classes and jobs. A PLD should be able to be swapped with a WAR with little to no impact on success rate. A NIN can easily be replaced by DRG and still has the same utility. A BRD and a MCH can easibly be exchanged with no compromise on their regeneration spells. By putting in variations of each class such as a PLD DPS, can a PLD DPS replace a DRG or NIN or a MNK? If it can, yes go ahead the idea works but if it cannot? The whole thing crashes down and we're all back on square one.

SE multiple times have said that they want all jobs and classes able to complete content. Customization may be possible if we keep them inside a restriction. Tanks have to act as tanks and get customizations accordingly. I support role customization instead of job customization. Give customization to traits and effects to skills and spells but they have to be able to have the same impact as the other customization on other class. We do not want a trait customization tree that gives WAR a higher advantage over the same trait customization tree on a PLD.

See the huge problem here? Discrimination. It's already happening with PLD, AST and the rangers. We all want the same damage, same defense, same things but we want customization as well that gives variations on those things too.