Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[DreadRabbit]

From one box into another. By grind FATEs no less. /smh

And having a roaming world bosses or grinding mobs to use those skill books you talked about is different...how?

[KaedrianLiang]

op

Just play the game for what it is. If the dev's bent themselves backwards for every demand on the forums this game would turn out like WoW. A game that's declined because the dev's bent themselves backwards for every demand on the forums.

[Bishop81]

And having a roaming world bosses or grinding mobs to use those skill books you talked about is different...how?

I get something new reward each time. Different mobs with different skill sets that you have to overcome. Although some can be from plain grinding if SE runs out of time.

You are also confusing the issue of end game content vs levelling.

Skill books are for when you are level capped - you can do it sooner if you like though.

End-game will always be a grind. Right now it's a gear grind - the most boring version of gear grind at that where new gear are carbon copies of the gear before it with bigger numbers.

Grinding for new skills and different types of gear (both of which I can choose which I want) that can allow you to change your playstyle and let you experiment with, is much preferable to the current gear grind.

[Intaki]

If they can't come up with equally viable divergent specs - then why not bring in more Job crystals for the classes already in game?

Because they've already said that ACN branching into multiple jobs created a balancing mess they never, ever want to repeat.

[DreadRabbit]

snip

But if the skills are end-game grind, where are you using them after you get them? So now I've won these cool unique skills...with nowhere to use them because they're locked out of anything but 4-man content I've already done? (because 8-man and above is considered raid or raid-ish in this game by the devs, and you've said these skills aren't for that). So skills replace the gear grind...so in other words, it's still a grind. Replacing a grind with another similar grind doesn't change gameplay.

There are fates with different mobs with different skill sets. Quite a few of them have open-world specific bosses. They could give more rewards, I'll admit that. And some level-cap end-game fates would be a nice change from hunts. What you described is exactly what you're supposed to do in a Fate. Especially boss fates. We have treasure maps with unique prizes that are needed in other areas of the game like crafts, often expecting you to fight a hoard of monsters you don't normally fight to get them.

I guess we just agree to disagree then. This skill book idea of yours with fine tuning has potential, but everything else you keep mentioning we already have.

[Bishop81]

But if the skills are end-game grind, where are you using them after you get them? So now I've won these cool unique skills...with nowhere to use them because they're locked out of anything but 4-man content I've already done? (because 8-man and above is considered raid or raid-ish in this game by the devs, and you've said these skills aren't for that). So skills replace the gear grind...so in other words, it's still a grind. Replacing a grind with another similar grind doesn't change gameplay.

You use them to kill monsters to get more skills and gear.

That's kind of what you do now with gear now too anyway. You get gear to do raids to get more gear.

I never said it wasn't a grind, just a less boring one since you get to mix and match the new skills and gear you get and try out different "builds".

There are fates with different mobs with different skill sets. Quite a few of them have open-world specific bosses. They could give more rewards, I'll admit that. What you described is exactly what you're supposed to do in a Fate. Especially boss fates. We have treasure maps with unique prizes that are needed in other areas of the game like crafts, often expecting you to fight a hoard of monsters you don't normally fight to get them.

I guess we just agree to disagree then. This skill book idea of yours with fine tuning has potential, but everything else you keep mentioning we already have.

Most FATE mechanics are very forgiving. You can ignore a good number of them. Those that you can't ignore, you just have to deal with with what abilities you have - one-shotting AOE->sprint, casted nuke->silence (if you have it, else just ready your cursor over the soon-to-be-appearing release button).

You can't "equip" different skills or gear to work around them which in IMHO much more interesting. There should be more than one way to skin a cat, more options are always welcomed.

[Saggo]

Fair enough, but again how is that any different from what we have now is the only thing I continue to wonder (other than you remained "druid" as an example).

Well I already touched on why it's similar but not the same, but again, look at ACN on one way a spec system could be done while existing within the armory system. It is essentially living proof that that they're not strictly the same. And again, leveling another job, even on the same character, is an amazing feature but not so simple a task (especially with the boost to 60).

I'm under no illusions, still doesn't mean it couldn't work. They already succeeded once with ACN (and some growing pains), I'm just sad to see them so readily abandon the idea.

And specs don't let you change roles in the very middle of battle like we can now by using cross class abilities (or even more than just 4 abilities in our native tool kit).

Cross class skills were never that flexible in 2.0, except for the odd DPS MRD or Tanking LNC. Definitely not with jobs.

[DreadRabbit]

snip

...Fate mechanics are too forgiving...but you hate how unforgiving raids are? o_O You're literally describing raids and how raiding works in WoW: you change your spec/skill tree and what gear you wear to match the fight you're about to go into. Yet you despise WoW and don't want FF14 to be a WoW clone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of raiding either but it has nothing to do with the fights themselves, for me it's more the stress people seem to want to bring to it.

Editing here because I've reached my post limit for the day:

I never said I was against difficulty.

My suggestions of non-"punish the whole group for the failings of a few" group content (instead just punish the player that screwed up) is meant to reduce toxicity, it was never meant to be easy. (and yes I read your edit, Bishop)

So we're back to square one with this particular conversation in this thread: this is a community problem. You also don't deny that you're advocating for a WoW-like progression system, claiming FF14 doesn't already have it, after having ranted that FF14 is too much like WoW and getting more and more like it. (And I have to disagree with the Bloodborne thing. That's a matter of personal preference, that's not a fact. For me an RPG is about playing through a storyline, since every game genre has the armor and skill customization you're talking about. But that's also my opinion, it's not a fact).

It was good talking to you, Bishop. It honestly was because I feel we hit upon some good ideas. But I think we're at that point where if you and I personally continue this part of the chat we're just going to continue running in circles.

Cross class skills were never that flexible in 2.0, except for the odd DPS MRD or Tanking LNC. Definitely not with jobs.

And that's where I disagree. I've had multiple experiences where cross class skills have enabled me to step outside my typical role in the middle of the fight. Now I'll admit not every class might have that flexibility and that is an issue that needs to be addressed.

And with that I peace out of this thread. Good luck all.

[Bishop81]

...Fate mechanics are too forgiving...but you hate how unforgiving raids are? o_O You're literally describing raids and how raiding works in WoW: you change your spec/skill tree and what gear you wear to match the fight you're about to go into. Yet you despise WoW and don't want FF14 to be a WoW clone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of raiding either but it has nothing to do with the fights themselves, for me it's more the stress people seem to want to bring to it.

I never said I was against difficulty.

My suggestions of non-"punish the whole group for the failings of a few" group content (instead just punish the player that screwed up) is meant to reduce toxicity, it was never meant to be easy.

PS:
Let me put it this way. It's disappointing that Bloodborne, an action game, has more RPG elements than FFXIV.

Your weapons do different types of damage, your tactics vary with your weapon choice (due to attack speed, reach ... etc.) and your effectiveness vs monsters vary with your damage type - certain monsters take more damage of a certain type.

Your armor provides different kinds of protection varying with effectiveness v.s. different monsters.

Your stats totally affect your play style unlike in FFXIV where you just dump it in your predetermined prefered stat.

Even the boss difficulty can be "adjusted" (although it's still crazy hard), you can blaze through it with pure hummingbird-like reflexes or you can study the boss and arm yourself with proper gear to take advantage of their weaknesses.

[Vinestra]

Wait. Are you saying casuals are doing "Extreme" difficulty content? Doesn't sound very casual friendly to me.

Casual Content is: ANYTHING IN THE GAME! Casual means someone who doesn't have a lot of time normally.. It DOES NOT mean they will not do hard content.