Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Dhex]

Skill trees and the like just don't work. The only choices they actually give you are the optimal choice and the choices equivalent to a DRG that insists upon using Feint and Fracture in their rotation.

Considering the game gives you no true choices at this point I fail to see how this line of thinking holds up.

[Intaki]

Considering the game gives you no true choices at this point I fail to see how this line of thinking holds up.

The game absolutely does give you true choices. Any DRG who wants to can integrate Feint and Fracture into their DPS rotations.

And yet, no one does.

[Izsha]

The game absolutely does give you true choices. Any DRG who wants to can integrate Feint and Fracture into their DPS rotations.

And yet, no one does.

Exactly. Everyone already forgot about classes. You can get provoke physic and blizzard 2 on your lancer. You want to tank spec lancer? Have at it. Oh you don't want to? Why is that exactly? Because it's not as strong as dragoon and groups would kick you unless they were your personal friends. Yet this is customization and it's already washed out. Sure they could make them stronger. But I'm the end theu won't be equal. One spec or build will be stronger or synergies better with the party and become the standard. It's not better for drgs if they spec lancer tank build to be stronger than a war. It just kills off wars. There is no balance because there is always a winner and a looser. That's the illusion of choice. You can choose the winner or the looser, but never 2 winners.

[LandricFrey]

Exactly. Everyone already forgot about classes. You can get provoke physic and blizzard 2 on your lancer. You want to tank spec lancer? Have at it. Oh you don't want to? Why is that exactly? Because it's not as strong as dragoon and groups would kick you unless they were your personal friends. Yet this is customization and it's already washed out. Sure they could make them stronger. But I'm the end theu won't be equal. One spec or build will be stronger or synergies better with the party and become the standard. It's not better for drgs if they spec lancer tank build to be stronger than a war. It just kills off wars. There is no balance because there is always a winner and a looser. That's the illusion of choice. You can choose the winner or the looser, but never 2 winners.

What's in game now is the pathetic remains of an ill-conceived cross class system. There are good and bad choices. How a good game does class customizing is they have you chose between good and good options. Preferably what matches your playstyle. difficult to do, yes, but if pulled off correctly, oh so worth it.

[Rafaelhades]

For the sake of discussion, let's explore possibilities then. Let's pick Ninja, since it has a lot of potential for dual paths: melee focus and spell focus. Let's imagine NIN getting the option to spec into either a physical DPS or a Ninjutsu-based magical DPS. How would you balance this, knowing it now competes with DRG and MNK for physical DPS and BLM and SMN for magical AND all 4 for a DPS slot? Do you balance it to be even with all 4? Or do you overpower it compared to 1 side of the DPS coin or the other? XI had this option. You could spend millions to try to make NIN nukers. Hell, I did. Innin was a stance that increased Ninjutsu dmg and you can sub /BLM for the Magic attack boost or RDM for fastcast for rapid fire spell casting. Was it fun? Yes. Was it feasable for any content outside of solo? Hell no. With the way haste worked, just autoattacking dealt far more dmg than spell casting. And building for solo has no impact on anything whatsoever.

If it deals similar dmg to a BLM, the BLM complains that the NIN deals similar dmg yet has no cast times. Same with SMN. On the melee front, should a NIN deal dmg on par with a DRG? What if the community discovers that Mage Ninja deals more dmg in the long run compare to Melee Ninja due to relative safety and not having to worry about positionals/range? Do all NINs get forced into one spec or the other or should all DPS deal equal dmg all the time? Isn't that the problem we're facing now? Expand that to all of the jobs and you have a developer headache on your hands. We have every job complaining that they can't perform on equal grounds with other jobs already (DPS forums are really bad with this), and you want to create diversity where one spec will undoubtedly claw it's way to the top? And if one doesn't and everything is "balanced," isn't that just homogenization? Unless they create content where the battle always changes. But at that point, players will just figure out the pattern and exit the battle until their desired conditions are met (think Grift fishing in D3).

Hardcore or not, EVERYONE will want the best, regardless of content difficulty. In fact, I suspect the whole job personalization idea stems from the desire to have one's ideal spec be "raid" viable, if not, the best spec for the class. Because, in an ironic twist, people want others to join them in playing their favorite play style.

If it's for non-raid content, do whatever you want, as long as you're capable of doing said content. I can ask some friends to run dungeons with me on Archer, use my Hive Bow + Law/Alex gear and do just as well as on my BRD with the same gear. I can do Primals on MRD with Law Axe as either DPS or tank or both. The game isn't hard and you don't need optimal setups to do any outside of Savage. It requires a player to know how to play. Asking for specializations just screams "make X build raid viable please SE" to me.

[Amiaze]

For the sake of discussion, let's explore possibilities then. -snip-

Very good points. I don't think that the system should be that easy for the player to use, honestly. If it were to be implemented, I imagine it would be a more in-depth system where all of your stats would have to be spec'd according to your gear, perhaps using a limited number of points similar to the bonus points that we already have.

And when I mean all stats, I mean your speeds as well. A NIN could very well focus on their melee or Ninjutsu damage, but have very bad global cooldowns (and attack speed) if they don't balance the points themselves on their own gear.

Would it be hard to implement? Yes. Very much so, and it wouldn't be easy for players to just pick up. But would it be worth it? I think so. It would certainly affect endgame content because they're built with certain mechanics and checks in mind, but that would just be the price we'd ultimately pay for having customization, just like in any game that gives you free reign of your character. You might just not have the right specifications to get through the fight and would have to start all over on your gear/ use an alternate gearset / revert to just using the "optimized" gear purchased via tomestones.

I don't think it's much different from using an optimized deck in a card game (say, Triple Triad) versus building your very own. Your strategy will be different and won't work against all encounters, but at least it's your own.

EDIT: While we're on the subject of limitations, about that character limit... >_>

[Phydeaux]

As of this writing, Final Fantasy XIV is in a rut. Heavensward is a bland rehash or the 2.X series. (Unless you count enabling players to fly over vast, forgettable landscapes, or the addition of three new jobs, which are near duplicates of three older vocations.)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[odintius]

I just want more options to develop my character thought materia system would be a good slight alternate method for like trait/ability increase materia, but we got this lame attribute system I don't want a over the top horizontal system, but something other then what we have currently, I <3 swtor method of orange gear were you insert mod/chip ect and it upgrades the gear something similar I wouldn't mind at all.

[Bishop81]

/sigh

Couple of points,

• Need non-"punish the whole group for the failings of a few" group content. Punish just the failing individual.
• Customizable Classes can then do such aforementioned content - in addition to existing solo content and easy group content like FATEs and Hunts - since tight balance won't be an issue,
  • no one being underpowered is going to affect anyone else's success hence will not get "sat".
  • no one being overpowered is going to steal anyone's raid spot.
• Bar customizable Classes from traditional raids so masochistic WoW-style raiding is unaffected and such players can continue to be as exclusionary and toxic toward each other as they want.

That is all.

PS: 15 posts a day really cramps having long discussions.

[zcrash970]

/snip
.

1) This is a mmo. A TEAM based game. One person failures should affect the entire party.
2) If a class is underpowered it will be "sat." Let's look at bards. The general opinion is their dps is underwheming and they are kicked from groups. AST, are kicked from endgame goups because their heals are weaker and do not have reliable utility. In 2.4-2.5, SMNs weren't wanted in endgame groups because they
weren't as good as BLMs.
3) If something is OP, then it will certainly replace the class with the same role. That's why a lot people want DRGs for a melee spot. BL is a giant dps buff with a pretty low CD.
4) Then why have something if it cannot partake in all content. It is pointless developing time. If jobs are better than the "customizable" class, no one will use them.

From reading your previous posts, it sounds like you haven't played many mmos. What you want have existed in mmos before and they always end the same way.