Job Personalization: Can I Have It?

[Gilthas]

Adding a merit point system to FFXIV would be a nice thing, because it would give us another way of improving our characters at level 60 besides gearing up.

But I have no delusions with it bringing "individuality" or "customization". It didn't in FFXI, and it wouldn't in FFXIV. The only real option that having exclusive upgrade paths would give us is the option to make bad choices.

That's why if a merit point system were to be added to the game, the preferable route to take would be to allow players to cap everything.

So long as FFXIV is following in WoW's footsteps of catering to raiders, where raiding is the foremost centerpiece of the game, where everything is designed around raiding ... you can expect the same banal Jobs/gear/items ... etc. because "balance > fun and interesting".

I'm hardly a hardcore raider, but balance is very important to me as well as for most of the playerbase, not just raiders. You act like "balance" opposes "fun and interesting", but that's simply not true.

It's not fun when:
- everyone only wants Rangers because their damage is so much better than everyone else's
- Rangers get nerfed into the ground and perform worse than almost everyone else so no one wants them anymore.
- people only want Warriors for their merit parties because they have great damage and good survivability
- no one wants your Dragoon because the community thinks the job is crap
- Black Mages no longer can get regular parties because TP-burns are much better experience
- Puppetmasters are considered a joke job.

And so many other glaring issues that FFXI had because the developers sucked at balancing.

Having unbalanced jobs is bad for everyone. It's bad for the player that likes the job because he gets shunned from most parties, and it's bad for those who don't play the job, because they get stuck with an underperforming job in duties.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd like to see this, but the issue real issue isn't even forum-spec homogeneity - it's fight homogeneity paired with the ability to change specializations. If one spec works best for most fights, we use that spec. If we can swap specs for each fight, we use the optimal spec for each fight (likely holding stacks of 99 of whatever items allows us to swap them, or if allowed only 1 such item at a time, returning to town every other Alex floor). Until there's content that can actually invite useful ingenuity through personalized specs (objectively and especially subjectively), they're not going to be that fun or personal.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love customization. I love using specs of some 71 well-thought talent points that others say is inferior and then blowing their dps per ilvl out of the water with it. But it is expensive, and frankly our fight diversity is fair bit less than where that 71-point talent system came from, and even it really only left about 5 to 8 real choices per class, with a grand maximum of 3 per talent tree.

[Rafaelhades]

Lol people still don't realize that the "illusion of choice" in this game already exists. You have the "choice" to unequip that job crystal and slot that Cure 1 and Physic on your Gladiator, equip a hooded robe and a bunch of MND and PIE accessories and go to town with your heals. You can do whatever you want playing solo or with friends; no one's stopping you. Hell, we've seen 7 MRD+1SCH kill Primals, class-only (no job crystal) CT runs and we're seeing WAR DPS in groups now. As long as you have 3-7 other friends queueing with you, you can spec any way you want. But don't expect random people to accept your off-the-wall tanking LNC when they just want tomes/drops or expect to be clearing highest lvl content.

I saw FFXI and Diablo thrown around in this thread and I find it funny when they're lumped in a sentence with the word "choice." You may have an argument with D2 since it is the only Diablo game that promoted class diversity, but XI and D3 are far from having any choices. Unless you think 5/5 Warcry merits and not using the latest flavour of the month 6pc set in D3 will get you anywhere.

[Izsha]

I saw FFXI and Diablo thrown around in this thread and I find it funny when they're lumped in a sentence with the word "choice." You may have an argument with D2 since it is the only Diablo game that promoted class diversity, but XI and D3 are far from having any choices. Unless you think 5/5 Warcry merits and not using the latest flavour of the month 6pc set in D3 will get you anywhere.

All very true. I only pointed out diablo because you can d some wonky terrible skill/gear build even in d3 and have fun. You won't survive the highest difficulties if you aren't the current patches cookie cut and people won't take you in their group farms. But that's OK when you can viable play any diablo franchise entirely alone however you want. Your choice to be incredibly sub optimal doesn't impede other people's progress. It did in xi and does in 14. That's why this doesn't work here. Both games require groups to function together to do virtually anything of worth. People playing the wrong spec (war/whm for example) were a detriment. What's worse was that ENTIRE JOBS were suboptimal and if you loved that job you were just stuck on the bench.

Here we currently have every class as a viable option. People can play any job and not be punished for it. SE learned from xi just as wow learned from their early days. Every company is moving AWAY from specs and trees because it fails. Every. Single. Time. Companies are learning, but people are trying to send us back to the stone age where you pray to the patch gods every few months that your current favorite class/spec doesn't get hit by the nerf gun just so you can keep playing it without suffering or buff your crappy spec into god mode so you can get back in the fray.

It's been tried a million times. It's failed a million times. What's the definition of insanity again?

[odintius]

Here we currently have every class as a viable option. People can play any job and not be punished for it. SE learned from xi just as wow learned from their early days. Every company is moving AWAY from specs and trees because it fails. Every. Single. Time. Companies are learning, but people are trying to send us back to the stone age where you pray to the patch gods every few months that your current favorite class/spec doesn't get hit by the nerf gun just so you can keep playing it without suffering or buff your crappy spec into god mode so you can get back in the fray.

I would say there more reasons to why a game fails then just completely blame it on spec and trees aspect that just silly, I'm sure you would agree. Besides it not like ffxiv is some new innovated game with all new game mechanics that never been seen before, no I would argue it sets a bare medium for a typical standard game, that not to difficult for the average gamer to understand. It's a quick pick me up to play type game, that not future gaming here. It's keeping it simple and not overly complex to appeal to casual's mostly, it's more stagnant I would say just like staying in the stone age but less complex, I like this game don't get me wrong it fun it in own way.

[Izsha]

I would say there more reasons to why a game fails then just completely blame it on spec and trees aspect that just silly, I'm sure you would agree. Besides it not like ffxiv is some new innovated game with all new game mechanics that never been seen before, no I would argue it sets a bare medium for a typical standard game, that not to difficult for the average gamer to understand. It's a quick pick me up to play type game, that not future gaming here. It's keeping it simple and not overly complex to appeal to casual's mostly, it's more stagnant I would say just like staying in the stone age but less complex, I like this game don't get me wrong it fun it in own way.

I never made such a claim. I never said specs singlehandedly kill games. I played ffxi for 9 years. The game still had people playing it even if the job balance was utter crap.

I said whenever and 'customization' system is attempted in cooperative team based MMO, it fails. The system fails. Not the game in its entirety. And if tried here, the system would fail, just like it always does. Wow had it, the game didn't die but they desperately tries to retool away from it. Ffxi tries every patch for a decade to balance the jobs and did nothing but seesaw and pass the hot job potato around for 10 years. It never got fixed. It never was an asset. To this day people talk about the good things about the game but always have to caveat that the job balance and exclusions were major issues for its entire lifespan.

nope nope nope.

I just don't see the point of making everything bland and predictable.

If you never played a game with these failed systems, I understand that sentiment. It seems boring and bland. But if you have played one of those games this blandness is a godsend. If you looooove playing let's say, ninja, but ninja sucks really really bad and every PF doesn't have the nin box checked, people kick you from DF on site because your a nin, your friends dodge you because they don't want to carry you, and it's not even because your a bad player, but because you chose to play nin you realize why bland is good.

Imbalance is far more detrimental to many players experience than blandness could ever be.

[odintius]

So we are stuck in the stone age still it seems just less complex every game goes through these stages after awhile though ffxiv wont be any different down the road, just like wow or ffxi or <insert game> with or without spec, balance, ect as the game ages people tend to move on to something different fresh after awhile it just normal, not because game people consider failed, games that run that long tend to run out of ideas as the people just move on I believe WoW/FFXI has experience this trend atm.

[Jonnycbad]

Merit system wasn't a real spec. It was gated vertical progression with an illusion of choice. Here's a list of 5 spells/abilities/traits, you can unlock all 5 and spec to Lv1, or unlock 2 and spec those to Lv5(max) or a mix but the issue was everyone almost always spec'd the same because the alternatives were stupid. In FFXI, one of DRG's merit abilities was Angon, an unmissable, unresistable -25% defense down for 30 seconds at Lv1 and 90 seconds at level 5. It was so powerful that it made other drg merits pointless(enhanced their pet accuracy, or a cool down that doubled their pet's next breath spell which was literally 0.02% of the raid's dps). Any DRG that didn't max out Angon could not come to endgame content, unless it was a PUG and they lied, or there was another DRG in the group which had it.

[Iromi]

I played dancer in ffxi and not every dancer picked the same merits o.O

Some picked the healer route...others, like myself picked the self SC route.

Same went for SMN...some unlocked the skills with merits, others didn't. Not everyone picked the same thing lol and still managed to play and get things done just fine....

[odintius]

I could see this happen if they include it only in open world content and separate it from dungeons and raids content to keep there precious balance, when you flag up for duty finder instance effectively turning off said features and keep it as it currently played. Though this would require 1 effort on dev's part, also adding new zones with the intention of being required party/FC areas, also with content having relevant rewards/regular updates for doing said open world content and a system to optimize your character with a newer version of materia system could work btw.

Also have to mention keep dungeons and raid gear revelant once back on your server can have crafter open up slots and attach materia with mention newer system to use also for the open world content but that my opinion on the subject lol. Even though people say it only a illusion of choice sometime that illusion of choice is a necessity, because that illusion is another persons reality of being fun and fulfilling /shrugs.

"New zones with the intention of being required party/FC areas" would be the exact same thing as our current dungeons and raids except you can bring more people along with you. These would still require jobs to be balanced if you want them to have relevant rewards.

Duh, why I said would require effort on dev's part that would include balance, but this would introduce content were you can bring more FC members or PF with you instead of not being able including them because of restriction to party size of a duty finder content.