Anyone else feel like DRK is a bit lacking in PvP?

[Daega]

Yeah sorry, you said prevents from going below 1hp which sounded like all you had for it. And correct, it doesn't have any utility. Saving Purify for it is what I normally do (Most DRK actually don't know this cause they are the lamers who go for glamour and suck at pvp), but it's hard when you're up against 100 fotm summoners and their insta triple dots that tick for 750+ and deathflare, fester, blah blah that leaves you near dead too.
Living dead is a joke and I seriously hope they rework it.

Also, How are you liking your new server. Was just hitting pvp hard when I met you. Rank 40 now! D:

[kisada]

well, that's good for you if you think so.

in my experience drk tends to be played extremely well below its potential. when you look at the guys out there who are at the top you can see exactly just what drk is capable of.

[Xenosan]

Purifying Walking Dead doesn't put LD on equal or higher footing than Holmgang / Hallowed Ground. You're just moving Purify to a mandatory slot in your rotation instead of when-needed if focused/CC'd. Holmgang is not an oh-sh!t button - it's used in a different manner than HG/LD. Shouldn't try comparing it to the later because it's different use. HG can be used offensively as well without LD's shortcomings.

Q9. Compared to Hallowed Ground and Holmgang, there's more burden for healers when Living Dead is used. Do you have plans to adjust this effect?

A9. This is up for consideration, instead of adjusting this action alone, we’re looking into this as if we need to adjust the special characteristics for the dark knight job. We’ll check the overall performance from 3.05 and continue looking into this.

I interpret 'special characteristics for dark knight job..' as MP management (Darkside especially) and I think that is what's on their radar for adjustment. Hopefully w/e adjustment they have planned helps out with PVP DRK as well.

They've also got the worse self-healing of the 3 tanks. How often are you DRKs in Grit?

I main NIN, and have since it was released. In Seal Rock so far, I've done almost as well in end-game score boards playing my DRK as I have while playing my NIN. Generally, on either Job, I tend to tie with another melee for top melee damage

Should expect nothing less. If a player knows how to melee in PVP, which job you bring doesn't largely matter, it's just a matter of learning the different burst rotation. This is why we should be comparing your DRK's performance to your NIN, and not critique DRK without that comparison. Did you go 10/1 with DRK: Yes? If NIN would you have done even better: Yes? Why did you role DRK...

Also fully agree with the AOE-to-Single thing. 90% that's how I'd use Carnal/Tar. AoE is a perk, not the definition. (Same is true for Passenger, Dragonfire Dive, Axe Kick, etc)

in my experience drk tends to be played extremely well below its potential. when you look at the guys out there who are at the top you can see exactly just what drk is capable of.

Agree 1,000% with the first part. We're still weeding out the DRKs in all content. As for the second, all I can contribute is that the only Battle Highs/Fevers I've seen on DRK has come from parties that are steam-rolling, which doesn't really speak to the DRK as an individual - but the group as a whole.

As an individual, I've never lost to DRK 1vs1 as DRG or PLD. I'm actually seeking them out for a free road kill. Until a DRK proves me wrong and out-plays me, I won't be convinced otherwise (partly why I'm seeking them out for 1vs1 fights, I want to be proven wrong). I'll give DRK another attempt once one has me thinking, "Wow wtf happened there" (that's how I started rolling MNK & PLD - had 1vs1 scenarios that left me humiliatedly defeated)

[Nalien]

Hallowed ground can be popped at any point so you are immune to CC and take zero damage

Holmgang is used to lock a target in place and prevents you from going below 1 hp

Living Dead prevents you from going below 1 hp, it doesnt have the lockdown effect of holmgang or the actual invincibility of hallowed ground

I know what they all do, I just don't get how that makes it terrible...

For holding a node solo, Living Dead is absolutely amazing; Hallowed Ground is nice, but does Paladin have any AoE interrupts on a reasonable cooldown? Didn't think so. Warrior does, but with Holmgang locking you in place the enemy should be able to find a safe spot to take the node easily. It doesn't really buy you any extra time holding onto that node, while Living Dead does since you retain your mobility.

Depending on how much focus you get during Walking Dead, you can actually hold that node for a fair bit longer too, with Purify. Between Push Back+Bloodbath, Dark Arts Abyssal Drain, Tar Pit, Carnal Chill, and all my other defensive cooldowns, I can actually go from my enemy thinking I'm dead with Walking Dead, to holding that node for at least another 10 seconds, if not more.

I honestly wouldn't even bother comparing Hallowed Ground/Living Dead to Holmgang. I mean, if you are Holmgang is trash; Can you push forward and survive while drawing most of the heat with Holmgang? No. You can't even move. Likewise, can you sprint to safety with it? No. For a push I'd even favour Living Dead over Hallowed Ground, Living Dead works far better at distracting the enemy, since you effectively become a free kill. I'll already be dead, yet I'll have multiple DPS fighting over who gets the easy kill shot. Holmgang isn't really about survival in PvP, it's about focusing a single target.

As an individual, I've never lost to DRK 1vs1 as DRG or PLD.

For 1v1s I've actually found Dark Knight to be pretty amazing, at least against other melee.

They've also got the worse self-healing of the 3 tanks. How often are you DRKs in Grit?

I'll use Grit if I'm holding, but in 1v1 I'll turn it on and off. Opening burst I'll leave it off, have Push Back + Bloodbath to mitigate some damage and make their opening burst hurt them and use Blood Weapon for Dark Arts for Carve and Spit/Souleater. Once that wears, Grit goes on, as does Blood Price, defensive cooldowns to cripple their DPS (Carnal Chill especially) and Souleater becomes more than enough self healing. When Blood Weapon is ready again Grit goes off, I'll pop a double Dark Arts combo for Dark Dance and Dark Passenger and finish them off; If they try to run I'll have Plunge and Stun saved, as well as Tar Pit.

Compared to the other 2 skills like it on the other jobs, its nowhere near as strong on the CC side

Its basically just a bad version of hallowed ground. im only comparing it to holmgang because it has the same effect of keeping your hp at 1

And? It's a different skill, go figure it would have different uses. I wouldn't use Hallowed Ground to burst like I would Holmgang, just like I wouldn't use Holmgang to push forward like I would with Living Dead...

All Dark Knight needs is an adjustment to its MP management. They could tack that onto Living Dead for all I care, if Living Dead also doubled up as a persistent Dark Arts I'd call that overpowered as hell, but I wouldn't complain about it...

[CeveArthu]

I know what they all do, I just don't get how that makes it terrible...

Compared to the other 2 skills like it on the other jobs, its nowhere near as strong on the CC side

Its basically just a bad version of hallowed ground. im only comparing it to holmgang because it has the same effect of keeping your hp at 1

[Daega]

Duo'd with a WAR the other day and he Holmganged a dragoon off of the spawn point and we ganked him haha. Good times.

[Ditto]

well, that's good for you if you think so.

in my experience drk tends to be played extremely well below its potential. when you look at the guys out there who are at the top you can see exactly just what drk is capable of.

Out of all the tanks, War has the highest kill potential, and higher survivability than Drk.

Smart Paladins and Drk's can be equal, while Drk's are just squishier.

The only time a Drk shines is when you have MP, which is gone after a single frontload burst. Don't get me wrong I love Drk, and have been PvP'ing religiously for the past 2 weeks as it. I have 300 matches played as Drk from the past 2 weeks and couple days alone. I destroy people all the time.

Most of the time those are free roamers though who are usually softer classes like Summoners or Bards, which if you can constantly harass them, they wont be able to do much until they die. And if Drk is good at anything, it's harassing. Problem is even that becomes weak once you're out of MP. Most kills are out of striking fear into people with your frontload burst that they try to get away. Then it's just a free kill because they're weekend, and already have their back to you trying to run. But just as the other tanks, they're just DPS with good mitigation and without the instakill DPS LB.

Excluding Warriors a little though, who have incredibly high damage, ridiculous burst potential, and high sustainability through their self heals and mitigation. That mitigation of which often adds to their offense. Compare your burst as a Drk to the burst of other classes, and it's nothing in comparison. Especially next to tripple Fell Cleaves, and Deathflares. Compare it only to the other tanks alone; they lack the mitigation a Pld has, and they lack the offense a Warrior has.

War > Pld =? Drk

Drk's are just all around average. Like any job, they can be good in the hands of a good player, but it's best not to confuse the lack of skill in your opponent, or even the presence of skill in yourself, for the job being incredibly strong. All jobs are incredibly strong in that case.

[Liselsia]

Out of all the tanks, War has the highest kill potential, and higher survivability than Drk.

I feel people are focusing on wrong aspects. Sure dps between DRK and WAR isnt hugely different. Both can have impressive burst. But their is mountain of difference in surviability. WAR are basically gods. They can maintain both good sustain healing and when eventually he gets chipped down to 20% he can instantly full heal back up to 100%. This is what makes WAR scary, Impressive DPS with insane sustain. DRK on other hand is just impressive damage with little to no sustain.

As someone else suggested. They are a Monk with no Melee LB.

[Sirius-Khan]

The only class i can play atm is drk and im not feeling like we need anything more than what we have. True, Living Dead is kinda meh but ive managed to win a 2 vs 1 with it, even if i died in the end lol they cant brag. Plus we have range, with Abyssal Drain and Plunge thats nail in the coffin moves for me when the opponents turn tail. Then blow up Tar Pit, Carnal Chill and Full Swing then fizzle out LOL.

[Houston009]

PvP isn't only about the damage you can do. Utility is just as important.