Anyone else feel like DRK is a bit lacking in PvP?

[CGMidlander]

DRK

-Has no pushing skill (PLD has Glory Slash, WAR has Mythril Tempest)

-MP upkeep is more annoying than in PvE since getting hit a lot is generally a bad idea in PvP (so Blood Price is kind of meh) and players tend to move around, so there will be delays in Syphon Strikes from chasing targets around.

There is also a net MP drain if you have Darkside on and the game considers you still "in combat".
You can toggle, but that costs MP too.

-Living Dead is bad.

-Defensive cooldowns aren't as good as PLD/WAR


Am I missing something here, or is DRK really not that great for PvP atm? Enlighten me.

[Mikedizzy]

YES! I own them in PvP on Bard....run little Dark Knighties....run....for you life.

[Lorielle]

No idea. But I have a gigglefit seeing DRK in Walking Dead status.

"You're already dead" > 10 seconds.

[Eul]

Living Dead is a joke. It just like "Gonna died in 10 seconds!" while get crowded by enemies.

[Buff_Archer]

Haha Living Dead is fun when they have no teammates close by and are trying to make it back to their healer. Throw a bind on them, and run in circles around them with a sparkler in your hand. If good sportsmanship really isn't your thing.

[Nalien]

Darkside annoys me, I wish they'd have given Dark Knight Mana Draw... MP is definitely the biggest issue with Dark Knight in PvP. Without Darkside or MP for Dark Arts, Dark Knight just becomes completely rubbish.

Other than that though... Living Dead I've found very useful, obviously it does nothing when you run off on your own... Would anything? Don't waste it in such a situation. Save it for when you're defending a node and a healer can pop a Benediction and/or you can abuse the hell out of Tar Pit and Abyssal Drain. In a team situation, Living Dead has the exact same benefit Attunement has; Idiots don't know any better. Having people continue to attack you because "they're nearly dead!" is a pretty great distraction technique. Even if you do "waste" it when you're on your own, don't waste it running off trying to find a healer; Go balls to the wall and absolutely wreak whatever DPS forced you to use it. You might not kill them, but someone else might, and if you popped Scourge you could get lucky. I've lost count of how many times I've respawned now, only to get a kill as that DoT finished off whoever was harassing me...

Blood Price? IDK, having a dozen of so people hitting on me while I'm single handily keeping them from taking a node makes that very useful; Great time to pop your PvP skills and start spamming Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain. All the people hitting on your for nothing makes Blood Price awesome in such a scenario. Am I going to survive? Hell no, not unless my team shows up. Do I care? Not at all. So what if I just gave the enemy 5 points and lost us 5 points, the extra time I held that node would have got us far more than 5 points, and the enemy team spent all the time for one kill and the last 20% of the node. IMO that is where Dark Knight really excels.

That isn't to say the Job is perfect though... Like I said, I've love to see it get Mana Draw (also does anyone know if Manasong can skip over Darkside? Because it should)... Final Fantasy XI also had a perfect little spell for Dark Knight too; Dread Spikes. I'd honestly rather see that than Push Back. Basically the same as Blood Price, but HP rather than MP; Enemies hit you, take X damage, your recover X HP. I also kind of wish they'd just out right lower the cost of Dark Arts in PvP, or at the very least give us something similar to Somersault and Perfect Balance... Remove Full Swing, give Dark Knight its own version of the skill with "Grants Darker Arts" effect (having it apply Blood Weapon or Blood Price would perhaps also work, come to think of it), which lets us spam Dark Arts reliant skills for a few seconds. Would be perfect.

Only other change I'd perhaps want is more a PvE one; Living Dead to remove MP costs for its duration. Keep Darkside draining MP, but if I'm about to die, let me go all or nothing and spam Dark Arts like a madman.

[Soular]

MP management seems to be the class' biggest problem at least in FL, even getting chipped by someone with something as measly as an autoattack means you absolutely have to drop Darkside if you aren't going to be seeing combat for awhile. WD I don't see it being as big of an issue due to the more fast paced nature of it, but its still there.

I haven't noticed a lack in defense- Shadow Wall definitely isn't Sentinel and parry is bad but I feel Dark Mind helps the class out a lot more in PvP due to its cooldown; often times I'd be able to use Shadowskin/DA+DM/Grit (if necessary) while pushing an objective and was able to pretty much laugh at any damage casters sent my way (and laugh even more if I was able to hit a group of them with Carnal) and get out of trouble before things got hairy.

For melees, Shadow Wall works just fine and I love to combo it with Bloodbath+Push Back, especially during a push, and their LB is no more threatening than it is to the other tank jobs.


Carnal Chill is amazing for nuking the damage dealt of priority targets or people in full burst mode and has a fairly decent AoE, can work very well in conjuction with the other tanks defensive PvP CDs, but it does suffer heavily because of its situational nature. Shield effects (Stoneskin, Galv/Noct shields, DV) kind of kill off its AoE aspect though (it won't spread if it hits a shield)

Tar Pit is good for making sure priority targets trying to get away don't get away, or can be used to slow an incoming rush. Of course, does this justify the loss of a knockback skill? I can't really say since I haven't used it enough to compare, or rather, I don't use it enough. I could probably live with it being replaced, honestly.


So yeah, I haven't really had as bad of a time with DRK as I've been hearing from some. The only thing that really bugs me is the occasional MP issues in FL, and the animations. The class has great bursting potential for a tank, but the animations on things like C&S, DP, arguably Souleater too can make it difficult to secure kills with friendlies around, and is especially annoying against healers. Too often I've had times where a healer was pretty much about to die only to be saved by a clutch heal and C&S's lengthy animation. Oh, and the fact that our stun is the worst overall in PvP (unless, you know, you have Dark Dance up and get insanely lucky as someone hits you)

Other than that, it feels a lot better to transition to after having played through nearly all of my lv50 PvP time as WAR. I don't think I'll be using it in WD though.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

I can't speak on the MP management (though from talking to my DRK friend, it wouldn't hurt if it drained less MP in PvP) but I can say that DRK can be a really great harass character like the other tanks. You can Unleash a data point (Seal Rock) for a long time if solo you've got Grit + all your cooldowns up + living dead which makes you an amazing defender / flag spinner.

About them not having a push back skill, I'm a little bit surprised they didn't give them one like the other tanks but I think their other pvp skills (Carnal Chill for Damage Reduction and Tar Pit for CC Heavy) make up for it.

[Nalien]

For melees, Shadow Wall works just fine and I love to combo it with Bloodbath+Push Back, especially during a push, and their LB is no more threatening than it is to the other tank jobs.

Oh? I didn't even know or think about that combo, guess Push Back effectively is Dread Spikes then. MP is my only issue with the Job then... I wonder, if Bloodbath and Push Back combo up, does Blood Weapon also combo nicely with Push Back? Would nicely provide the second Blood Price I've desperately been craving...

Gonna have to try this out later, but that certainly improves my opinion of Dark Knight in PvP... Still wouldn't mind getting Manadraw or something, but this should make things a bit more fun... I already found Dark Knight very good for defending and pushing, and apparently I've been playing it wrong... This should be a fun afternoon...

[Domira]

I play DRK a lot. More than PLD (I haven't got my WAR to 60 yet). I agree with many of the concerns the OP mentioned. They are definitely valid concerns.


Somethings I disagree with is DRK defensive cds being worse than WARs. They are definitely better but maybe slightly worse than PLD. However out of the tanks, DRK has the best defenses against casters. DRK also has the best mobility out of the tanks. While PLD and WAR pvp skills are very similar (knockback and damage mitigation). All of DRK pvp skills are completely offensive. Tar pit synergizes well with cometeor.

MP is a serious concern and I find myself running out a lot. Unlike pve there is no guarantee blood price will work. Since tanks aren't primary targets. Maybe one thing they could do is change tar pits hp drain to a mp conversion tool. The hp drain on tar pit is garbage anyway.