DPS problem...SOLUTION!

[Zohar_Lahar]

Okay, unless you are raiding, there isnt much of a DPS check in this game. Is there really a need to rush here to the forums bitching about every lil thing? There have been countless topics bitching about every role lately. I'm fairly certain we dont need 10 more today do we?

If people do have a problem with a player not correctly playing the job, then POLITELY offer advice. I say politely because 99% of the advice I've seen given is just some rude remark to a new player who is just trying to enjoy the game.

When "Bismarck Ex clear" parties fail again and again due to not meeting the DPS checks, making it impossible to get the quest completed, then something is wrong.

[Seig345]

That content you don't like seeing people fail at is the DPS learning mechanism... It's just that people seem to have a huge issue with being a part of the learning process.

[Alberel]

That content you don't like seeing people fail at is the DPS learning mechanism... It's just that people seem to have a huge issue with being a part of the learning process.

The problem is they don't learn. They whine on the forums about how hard things are until SE nerfs the content so they don't have to actually learn anything. The duty finder is largely pointless for a lot of content simply because so many people refuse to even try to improve and thus groups are incapable of clearing content. A lot of groups will wipe once and disband, and it's usually the 'bad' players that leave first when they realise this group can't give them a free carry.

Some form of solo content that forces players to engage with their job mechanics and try to better themselves would work well as a gating mechanism for access to endgame content. They wouldn't need it for access to roulettes or other content where their impotence won't wipe the group but a skill-based check of sorts to unlock raid content like Alexander in the DF would be a good thing. They would have no reason to rage if they can't clear the gate because they wouldn't be able to handle the content that it gates anyway. Something akin to FFXI's Maat fights would be ideal for this.

[Seig345]

The problem is they don't learn. They whine on the forums about how hard things are until SE nerfs the content so they don't have to actually learn anything. The duty finder is largely pointless for a lot of content simply because so many people refuse to even try to improve and thus groups are incapable of clearing content. A lot of groups will wipe once and disband, and it's usually the 'bad' players that leave first when they realise this group can't give them a free carry.

[...]

I've seen plenty of experienced players drop the drama bombs and leave after one wipe as well. People seem to look at the new people they get stuck with each time as the same new people even though they aren't, and then feel like people "never learn".

[Alberel]

I've seen plenty of experienced players drop the drama bombs and leave after one wipe as well. People seem to look at the new people they get stuck with each time as the same new people even though they aren't, and then feel like people "never learn".

This is far less common, and it's usually experienced tanks that do this because they know they can quickly get another queue pop. Most experienced dps and healers tend to stick around for a few attempts at least in my experience.

My main point though is that a lot of these bad players make no effort to actually improve. If I do Alex 4 and wipe to a specific mechanic because someone did something wrong I'll explain it to them on the next attempt and they will often STILL mess it up by outright ignoring what I just explained to them. That's if I'm lucky as well; half the time they'll rage that they would rather do it their own way which wipes the group every time and then get stubborn about it and simply refuse to engage with the fight's mechanics properly.

In A4, when someone gets the three lasers targeted on them for other players to intercept the easiest way to handle that mechanic is to have the targeted player stand still so others can get in position. Despite explaining this mechanic after multiple wipes I have seen the same people run around with the lasers time after time. That is a bad player with zero care for improvement. Those players do not learn and are nothing but a hindrance in the duty finder. Some kind of solo content that blocks them from the duty finder for raid content until they demonstrate they can actually do more than die constantly would save both them and everyone else a lot of hassle.

[Seig345]

[...] My main point though is that a lot of these bad players make no effort to actually improve. If I do Alex 4 and wipe to a specific mechanic because someone did something wrong I'll explain it to them on the next attempt and they will often STILL mess it up by outright ignoring what I just explained to them. That's if I'm lucky as well; half the time they'll rage that they would rather do it their own way which wipes the group every time and then get stubborn about it and simply refuse to engage with the fight's mechanics properly. [...]

What's to stop them from lapsing back into their "okay, the other players will cover for me, I'll just do my thing" mentality after clearing these job lessons? Mechanics typically differ in timing, pattern, and variety as well, so unless you intend for there to be a "solo job-learning mode" for each raid's boss mechanics, who's to say that these people who aren't willing to learn will suddenly change their ways because of one required trial?

The idea proposed in the OP seems to be a solution for people who don't know their role; however, not knowing your role and refusing to learn your role are two different issues. It seems to me like the people who would benefit from the lesson the most are the people who would in fact listen to advice given during a raid, whereas the stubborn idiots will do whatever they have to to get through the prerequisites (as already being done by meeting the ilvl requirement) and then continue on with their stubborn ways.

[Cinicus]

Maat. brought to us in FFXI


Job specific 1v1 fight that makes you use your job correctly to defeat him. People learn their jobs, win.

Forget it! not a dps fix. A horrible player fix. cant get past maat? sorry bro. git gud

Also needs to be mandatory for all jobs. unlike ffxi

Healer maat = npc you have to keep alive against maat for a certain amount of time
Tank. = keep maats hate while you also have to pop cooldowns at proper times to avoid certain death
DPS= beat the tar out of him. not enough dps.. not a win.

Steps of Faith for me was fun and fine. I do like a Maat fight as that was such a great part of FFXI and it really did make people learn how to play but it was also flawed. I do however like your way with the healer/tank/dps setup.

[Zumi]

Part of doing good dps isn't just being able to do high dps on a training dummy. Its during a boss fight where you have to preform mechanics, dodge aoe and at the same time keeping high dps up. Most people know their rotations but they suffer when it comes keeping their rotation up while dodging stuff.

[UBERHAXED]

So basically, do the job quests. Doesn't seem to fix the problem though. DPS is dependent on gear so people will just out gear it. Also they added echo in the job quests because they didn't want to hold back people who sucked.

[Cedri]

How about stop worrying about your DPS as a tank so we can actually hit as hard as we want?