Damage Meters

[Tarta]

I suggested omitting the numbers as it seems to lessen/dampen/scare away potential positive feedback.
Adding numbers is the easiest thing ever. There's already parsers out there that do just that.
The reason I suggested color codes/patterns/etc is to make the experience feel more like a game (we're still playing a game here, right?)

New Gaming industry standards are forcing psychological gimmicks to make gaming feel more like an addiction than a anything else, so giving the intangible reward of "high DPS" being further encouraged with flashy/exciting pattern/sounds or whatever was for the checkmark on whichever boardroom meeting would propose if the feature would positively retain players or detract players.

Bishop81, you are correct in that we have "hardcore" players that may use 3rd party software to parse their performances, but as Voltyblast is pointing out, they facilitate a finger-pointing scenario on poor performances on some of your peers.

I was looking for a way to positively promote self-accomplishments in the game to the player himself (like achievements, you would even have achievements for upkeeping the special meter max status for x-amount of time or some such).

Would there be a way to better the system (without complicating it). Keep ideas simple, concept simple and thing of newcomers playing Final Fantasy, is this something that would help or hinder?

[Risvertasashi]

I see what you mean about numbers but... A relativistic system is a bit hard to do right with so many variables.

[Terribad]

Wouldn't the same problem still exist?
The causal/bad that's scared of numbers is just simply going to be scared of colors now. Even with the color bar the person that doesn't know their rotation by now most likely doesn't care to. So we're back in the same situation, someone is the weak link, we don't know who, no one is going to step up so we can't correct the problem.

SE just needs to allow parsers and stop nerfing everything in the ground so fast, when players can't get through something and they know daddy SE isn't going to nerf it in a week, they'll figure it out. Plus the natural gap between the bads and average players needs to be there it'll cut down on extra drama.

[Makeda]

Wouldn't the same problem still exist?
The causal/bad that's scared of numbers is just simply going to be scared of colors now. Even with the color bar the person that doesn't know their rotation by now most likely doesn't care to. So we're back in the same situation, someone is the weak link, we don't know who, no one is going to step up so we can't correct the problem.

Where does this hateful conservative meme come from anyway?

I've been playing these games since 2005 and I've never met this mythical player that doesn't care, wants to get carried, and 'whines to daddy'. The only people who 'whine to daddy' are the ones who claim everyone else does, when they get called on it.

Not everyone is as super amazing as you. But that doesn't meant they don't try or don't want to get better. They just haven't gotten there yet.

Either they don't know how, they lack the resources to figure out how (time, skill, agility, able-bodied-ness, whatever), or they are not aware of what they're doing wrong. Or quite often, they have been burned and intimidated by those who's so-called-advice is sharply toned and full of negative slams. Ok, so maybe you learn best by being punched in the gut and told you're worhtless... I grew up in a ghetto and got out, so I can relate to that. But not everyone works that way. You don't need to sugar coat things because life isn't binary... but you don't need to urinate on people when you talk to them either...

But I've never met a moocher except for the rich girl that wanted to make me her latin pool boy when I was 22...

This negative attitude against other players is the real problem... Get over it that other people are not at your pace... Help them get there, or shut up about it.

As for meters...

I really like the color codes idea. But I'm thinking the colors might work best with red as 'more DPS than needed', orange as just right, yellow as a bit low, and green as not enough - like the enmity meter works.

[Terribad]

I've been playing these games since 2005 and I've never met this mythical player that doesn't care, wants to get carried, and 'whines to daddy'..

Just because YOU haven't met these players doesn't mean they don't exist. People wouldn't mention them if they never, ever existed. Also I believe there's a thread here asking for Garuda story mode to be nerfed(A bad that wont learn mechanics). If you've been here since 2.0 release you'll know about people screaming about AK nerfs. There's plenty of people here (and in many other mmos) that simply do not care about rotation but they want (for whatever reason) to do end game content.

And the whole "Everyone isn't as good as you, everyone isn't pro" No one is asking for everyone to be God tier players, most people just want people to put forth SOME effort. There's guides, fc mates, ls mates, the forums, reddit, youtube, etc if you can't take 3 minutes out of your day to learn your class (or just read your tool tips) then that goes back to my original point that they don't care.

Help them get there, or shut up about it.

Not only is it not my job to teach them about THEIR job they DECIDED to play. It's not enough time to do that in dungeons and 2. a lot simply don't want help.

Ran into a PLD just today that would not use flash or any of his aggro abilities me and a dps offered help several times very nicely. He ignored us except to ask for a raise once I let him die. Ran into a healer that kept using cure 2, asked if I could offer advice, got told "No". Like i said with as easy as this game is if you make it to 50 and don't know your rotations or what to do by then, you simply do not care.

[ElHeggunte]

I've been playing these games since 2005 and I've never met this mythical player that doesn't care, wants to get carried, and 'whines to daddy'. The only people who 'whine to daddy' are the ones who claim everyone else does, when they get called on it.

Really? I've played my fair share of MMOs and while this isn't necessarily super common, I see it a lot more than I'd like. It happens the most in content that involves lots of people because it's easier for an individual to blend in. For FFXIV that content would be things like CT/ST/WoD and soon whatever new 24-man we're getting for HW. I've seen more people than I can count intentionally get themselves locked out of fights or just park themselves on the boss and auto-attack, only coming back often enough to accept the inevitable raise or to cast lots on loot and move on to the next boss. These same people are often the ones that "accidentally" pull the boss or delay rolling on gear so they can't be vote kicked. If you've been playing MMOs for 10 years and haven't seen one, you're not paying close enough attention.

[Tarta]

< snip > I really like the color codes idea. But I'm thinking the colors might work best with red as 'more DPS than needed', orange as just right, yellow as a bit low, and green as not enough - like the enmity meter works.

Hmm that's a good idea, it would focus on a more casual approach to the fights, where if you put yourself in "OVERDRIVE!" you're helping out, but it's not "needed". Actually it may even be better this way, thinking player retention-wise, less stress. Thanks Makeda!!

[Tarta]

Ok Terribad, I can see the point you bring.
How about this; if a "casual/bad" is "scared of colors" in game, as in the player has found through leveling and story progression and open-world regular mob killing that he's only hitting 'Orange Level' at best.
Next step would be: "How does this player get the resource available to improve himself, within the confines of the game? How do they improve their skill, while being engaged in the game?"

How about this; you setup an NPC for your Job which is scripted to encourage you with tips and tricks on a dummy beside you, telling you which buttons to press on your bars (like Dance Dance Revolution style), telling the player to keep up with him, encouraging the player to get better. You could make that NPC anything really, which would work Lore-wise, such as your inner-self giving you pointers on self-improvement.
That way, it provides the players with a means to knowing if they need to improve, and an in-game tool to improve their button pressing abilities.
I think that would improve on the problem, don't you think?

[Terribad]

Snip

You're going off an example as IF the player cared bads do not care, that's why they're bads! (I know I said casual earlier but real casuals are not bad, that was a mistake on my part) There are SO many resources already available the question "how to get information to improve" should never be asked with good ol' Google. IF the person cared, they would Google, ask FC mates, LS mates, practice AND watch videos. I've seen people that actually cared come in a dungeon and go "This is my first time as this class, please let me know if I do something wrong". Those type of people that want to improve will have their jobs down pact by time they hit end game(which is where most of the complaints are coming from).

I think what would improve the problem is to have that natural gap/separation that every MMO has. With this game the bads,casuals, average players, hardcores, and elitist are all together in a mixing pot. Usually certain "gates" removes the bads OR makes them improve, we don't have that here.

[Tarta]

You're going off an example as IF the player <<snip>> With this game the bads,casuals, average players, hardcores, and elitist are all together in a mixing pot. Usually certain "gates" removes the bads OR makes them improve, we don't have that here.

I understand your position, but we're trying to see if we can have FFXIV be the sole resource your would need for the whole of the content. Not google, or outside information - that would be for real hardcore players that love this kind of stuff, as there is nothing wrong with it. Some people play on PS3/PS4 and there is targetting issues, limited space on bars...etc, they may not have a laptop beside them and stepping away from the game to help you play the game is...it's not great.

The natural gap/seperation is there in FFXIV but it's weak. You learn a new ability NPC gives you a quest that like say "You should probably sneak there. Sneaking is good. Sneak!" but doesn't do nothing more, or further incentive about it. It's a gate, a weak gate, but doesn't indulge in "advance button pressing".
Mostly, like you say, there's instances like, you talk to a bard that says "Ultima was awesome, let me tell you the embellished tale. Careful, I'll embellish it with lasers and stuff." Then throws you in Ultima Hard Mode, crushing parties that are weaker in their performances (at the time).
Having something to improve the average player's quality of life would be nice, and a step forward in game design.