This is absolutely ridiculous (DPS CHECK RANT)

[Happosai]

Going by the sample size offered by this Forum, you would think 99% of the player base is actually elite. Sooooo many baddies, yet nary a one represented after 16 pages of chest-thumping.

Keep in mind how relative "skill" is. Every poster here will suck compared to someone else out there. That's a fact. Unless someone wants to step up as the VERY best FF14 has to offer. Takers?

I guess I could be classified as a "baddie" (thats bad player right? Not badass? Im no badass). Ill be the bad player representative. But yea I see what you're saying. It frustrates me how so many of the players seem to think your either world first good or you're the rp ice mage (as one of your responders suggested). So much over generalization. So much elitist assumptions. I love this game. I want to keep playing and progress. But when I meet people like this in game and on forums I just wanna say ftw (not for the win).

[Mercutial]

I'd also like to point out that the players I have ran with that are TRULY top-tier are rarely loud-mouthed, braggarts raging at party members. In my opinion, this kind of behavior is almost undoubtedly linked to a degree of insecurity.

And I stand by my comment that the relative nature of skill should be noted. It's not as simple as Ice Mage vs. World First. I've been in enough top-tier farm parties to see this sort of behavior directed at players that could easily mop the floor with 99% of the playerbase by those who just happen to be thaaaaaaat much better (by such a slim margin). Hell... not too long ago, I was in a RavEx farm party that one-shotted ten consecutive times. Yet one of the healers was all over certain players. At what point do you stop flexing and begin to enjoy the game?

[Whiteroom]

I'd also like to point out that the players I have ran with that are TRULY top-tier are rarely loud-mouthed, braggarts raging at party members. In my opinion, this kind of behavior is almost undoubtedly linked to a degree of insecurity.

And I stand by my comment that the relative nature of skill should be noted. It's not as simple as Ice Mage vs. World First. I've been in enough top-tier farm parties to see this sort of behavior directed at players that could easily mop the floor with 99% of the playerbase by those who just happen to be thaaaaaaat much better (by such a slim margin). Hell... not too long ago, I was in a RavEx farm party that one-shotted ten consecutive times. Yet one of the healers was all over certain players. At what point do you stop flexing and begin to enjoy the game?

Irony?

/10char

[Mercutial]

Like rain on your wedding day? Stop being so cryptic and spit it out. Because in my opinion, the aforementioned healer was NOT the best of the best... if that's what you're getting at.

[Happosai]

Someone said that if a group is failing because one person then group should get rid of that one person, well news to you, in a group the fault of a failure is NOT on the shoulder of one person, only, is a group work and as such is the failure of all

I dont think you were referring to my suggestion. I agree for the most part that its a team effort. "Omg healer A missed the DK! You made us fail" everyone gets the same dk is ready message therefore anyone could have backed up. The group failed. But as others are pointing out if you wipe to the carapace several times in a row due to one of the dps' severely underperforming and not improving with constructive criticism than by all means replace. If you've set clear expectations in pf that are clearly not being met I feel replacing is fair. I think there are better alternatives to that style of play but I still think its fair.

[Malevicton]

snip

Relative nature of skill can be noted, sure, but that's a different conversation. No one here was saying any of the things you're saying people are saying :P We're talking about legitimately bad players, of which there are plenty. You're conflating the topic with a different topic, the different topic being people raging over trivial mistakes. No one here has endorsed that, even remotely.

You're essentially saying that by having a standard at all, our standards are too high. You're the one who brought up the top-tier player comparison. It's a bit weird for you to bring that up and then slam it as a false dichotomy.

[Sylentmana]

I have bad news for you :P

Uh-oh, I don't know if my body is ready to receive this grievous news!

[Mercutial]

Relative nature of skill can be noted, sure, but that's a different conversation. No one here was saying any of the things you're saying people are saying :P We're talking about legitimately bad players, of which there are plenty. You're conflating the topic with a different topic, the different topic being people raging over trivial mistakes. No one here has endorsed that, even remotely.

You're essentially saying that by having a standard at all, our standards are too high.

Fair enough. I'll bow out. I guess I would just like to point out that others should be mindful that in the end it's just a game. If a party member wants to deeps by licking his controller, then by all means replace.

[Whiteroom]

Someone said that if a group is failing because one person then group should get rid of that one person, well news to you, in a group the fault of a failure is NOT on the shoulder of one person, only, is a group work and as such is the failure of all...
Mei

While I think this is a nice sentiment, and true as far as groups with synergy issues goes, it does not apply universally or here. The group content has been compared to group jump rope before, which is apt. If one person is not doing their job, it can cause the group to fail. True, a group of exceptional players can carry one or two through, but simply capable players cannot. Now the problem we have is that not only can we not tell the person who isn't jumping, that they aren't, in most cases, they don't even know if they are jumping or not.

But more to the one person bringing down the group, if say for example (a simple one excluding tanks damage for simplicitys sake), an encounter requires that a total dps of 2400 be met to clear the check, and three of the dps do 650 dps while the fourth does only 200, then the failure is 100% on that last person. The others are carrying more than their portion and it still can't be cleared. You also can't teach a person in a random run a the full ins and outs of their role. So yes, that person will need to be replaced until they learn their role better. There is such a thing as taking ownership of your failures, rather than just putting them on the group.


Edit: Sorry for going on...

But right now, the content cannot be extremely over geared, so overcompensating for an extremely under performing player is asking far to much for people who are managing to come just above the threshold needed. Do you not agree that it is worse to ask more of these who are already doing more than their part, than to ask the person who is doing 1/2 or 1/3 of their portion to step it up? No? The others must improve rather than the one not even doing the damage people were capable of at half the ilvl that person has on...

[Dement]

You shouldnt have to but peopel want you to because they have such a high opinion of their own abilities and consider themselves so mighty up that anything else that is not like them is by definition bad, ergo why parsers shouldnt be allowed, they are Tools for level-headed people that know what it is meant for and uses that type of material wisely, MOST of the FFXIV community is made of immature, egocentrique, selfish people that only see themselves when ina group and forget that being part of a group means something that you all forget, the weaker link, not necesseraly the badest, needs the rest to get through, if someone is low, the rest that is sooo good rom what they say, should compensate and be done and over with, no buts, no ifs.

Someone said that if a group is failing because one person then group should get rid of that one person, well news to you, in a group the fault of a failure is NOT on the shoulder of one person, only, is a group work and as such is the failure of all, be it by a small contribution to that failure or a big contribution, might want to think of this before going to try and demand something just to be able to point fingers (not aiming at you as you Whiteroom)

Mei

What are you talking about? Very few people demand that you be the very best of the best to join their Bismarck EX party finder. The ones that do demand this are typically the ones looking for a carry. What the majority do ask of you is that you are competent enough to pass the DPS checks that exist in the encounter. These aren't nearly as tight as people try to represent. If a party can do it in ilvl 150 gear, why in the world can't a party do it in ilvl 200 gear? I also think you make gross assumptions about the majority of the FFXIV community. I have played since launch and I can count the number of "immature, egocentric, selfish" encounters that I've had on one hand. Furthermore the most recent one was when I was trying to give helpful advice to a SMN in Aurum Vale. I was not condescending, angry, or in any way trying to be rude... yet the SMN threw such a fit about it that they told me my advice was stupid and unsummoned their pet. (I informed them that having Garuda using her knockback ability on CD would likely be met with some level of resistance in level 50+ dungeons and that to maximize their potential as SMN, they would need to play under Obey instead of Sic.)

Also your point about compensating for the under-achievers is moot. Encounters are tuned around 8 people of a specific ilvl performing their jobs adequately. With where the game was at until recently, it was not possible to overgear an encounter enough to compensate for someone who fails at their job in every way shape and form. While it's possible now, most PUG groups won't have the needed equipment to compensate in such a manner. Sure, as higher gear is distributed it will be easier and more frequent; however, at the moment, very few groups are capable of compensating for one person who can't play their job.

Why should 7 people have to compensate though? If they set up a party finder that asked everyone to be able to adequately perform their job, why should they need to compensate for someone who joined the party without meeting the requested criteria. You could make the argument that the person that is under-achieving doesn't know they are the problem but then that is the doorway to why, at the very least, a personal parser of some form or another is needed. The only other arguments of why the other 7 should compensate for 1 paints the under-achiever as just as toxic as the elitists that everyone seems to despise so much. They have knowingly joined a party without meeting the criteria for being in said party or being able to fulfill the role that is requested of them. In that scenario, they are trying to sneak a carry out of the hardwork of others while having full knowledge that they are not contributing.