I've permanently solved The Wanderer's Minuet problem...

[Noira]

Like the only valid complaint is the ocgd clunkiness on Bard LOL.

Like what was said most of the Bards complaining about WM are non raiders, because if you are in a raid environment and you're hopping around like you have some energizer bunny issues, then you were a liability to a raid (I.E placing an aoe next to a blm or smn because you can't keep still)

Not mention a huge annoyance to a healer...how the hell are we gonna heal you if you're dancing around ?

1.5 cast is nothing (actually a lot lower if you clipcast). On Bard nor Mch (check all you want level 60 mch , level 57 Bard). Like seriously nothing....I would go so far to say the "cast" time was simply SE taking the charge animation time for heavy shot and slug shot and adding it other abilities cause that is exactly what it feels like.

[Sapphic]

Mained BRD from beta and into launch and went onto clear First coil as BRD. Changed FC and got invited to a static (that I'm still in) but they already had a BRD, volounteered to switch to MNK which I had planned to try after seeing the early preview of AF2 ^^ After getting used to MNK pretty much stopped 100% with BRD as it felt dull in comparison.

One of my retainers I made Archer after they added ventures, so instead of resetting retainer to another class with HW I decided to level BRD to 60 (probably will end up levelling all, that completionism XD ). The addition of WM has breathed new life into BRD and I am actually enjoying it. Also our static BRD loves it too.

A loud vocal minority on the forums is no indication of the overall attitude to WM. Also the primary complaint was that WM was not worth it as it wasn't really a DPS boost when active, so what did SE do? they increased the bonus under WM so that it is an increase.

For me it adds a level of tactics to BRD that was surely missing prior. Is it safe to use WM now? Can I just anim clip to move or do I need to drop WM?

Also those mentioning the animation that they extended by holding the quiver. The longer you hold a bow fully drawn the more tiring it gets, if only firing a small number of arrows it's less of an issue but for extended periods of firing you find the target, lock on to the target, draw arrow and fire in one fluid motion to reduce the stress on the arm and shoulder muscles to allow for longer engagements.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

I leveled bard to 50 2 weeks before heavensword so I admit I know little about how to play one pre HS as a main.

But can say this while my bard is lv59, for short fights don't use wanderers but for longer fights its dps is higher make sure to apply dots venomous bile and windbite before going into wardens for optimal dps.

[Reynhart]

That's really funny, because I'm pretty sure one year-ish ago, we had dozens of thread were BRDs complained about their lack of DPS.
And of course, mobility was brought up to explain why their DPS was so low, and most of BRDs replied by "But sometimes, we don't need this mobility, yet we're still penalized by it".

Maybe one day, you realize that Wanderer's Minuet was created to answer your complains back in the day. Be careful what you wish for, it might be granted eventually.

[vp_cmc]

That's really funny, because I'm pretty sure one year-ish ago, we had dozens of thread were BRDs complained about their lack of DPS.
And of course, mobility was brought up to explain why their DPS was so low, and most of BRDs replied by "But sometimes, we don't need this mobility, yet we're still penalized by it".

I don't remember a single thread where bards asked to add casting times to their skills.

[Reynhart]

I don't remember a single thread there bards asked to add casting times to their skills.

Not in these exact terms, but they're not many ways to prevent mobility when you think you don't need it.

[vp_cmc]

Not in these exact terms, but they're not many ways to prevent mobility when you think you don't need it.

1. They could restrict us to stay in some small area (like BLM)
2. They could make WM disappear when I start moving, so I need to reapply it again (probably with casting time)

And can somebody answer me, is it a good brd design when:
1. I lose dps when I have to double oGCD (wasn't an issue in 2.x)
2. When I have a straighter shot proc, I can't use it immediately. I have to spend one more gcd with some skill (mostly with other heavy shot, getting other proc and losing that proc in that case)
3. Why when I use repelling shot as oGCD skill, my next GCD skill can be interrupted when I wasn't moving after that?
4. Why after I turn off WM I still have casting time on my next GCD skill?

[Reynhart]

1. They could restrict us to stay in some small area (like BLM)
2. They could make WM disappear when I start moving, so I need to reapply it again (probably with casting time)

If you know you have to move, you can just cancel WM so you will DPS as usual. And they even allow you to put it on back instantly, since 3.01. If you don't know you have to move and blame SE for how you don't manage WM properly, it's on you.

2. When I have a straighter shot proc, I can't use it immediately. I have to spend one more gcd with some skill (mostly with other heavy shot, getting other proc and losing that proc in that case)

There's almost one second left on you GCD when you finish casting Heavy Shot, how do you miss the proc ?

3. Why when I use repelling shot as oGCD skill, my next GCD skill can be interrupted when I wasn't moving after that?

Because Repelling Shot makes you...move, maybe ?

4. Why after I turn off WM I still have casting time on my next GCD skill?

Because you probably start your next GCD before the icon disappear. Exatcly the same activation/deactivation delay as every other oGCD skill.

[Duelle]

That's really funny, because I'm pretty sure one year-ish ago, we had dozens of thread were BRDs complained about their lack of DPS.
And of course, mobility was brought up to explain why their DPS was so low, and most of BRDs replied by "But sometimes, we don't need this mobility, yet we're still penalized by it".

Maybe one day, you realize that Wanderer's Minuet was created to answer your complains back in the day. Be careful what you wish for, it might be granted eventually.

As I've said, option B of my post is available if you want to reduce BRD mobility and increase DPS. There was a MUCH better way to implement the sort of gameplay the devs wanted to push on BRD. Again, tossing in a stance at lv52 was not the way to go about it.

If you know you have to move, you can just cancel WM so you will DPS as usual. And they even allow you to put it on back instantly, since 3.01. If you don't know you have to move and blame SE for how you don't manage WM properly, it's on you.

And at that point it becomes having an extra button to push for its own sake, which is bad design.

[Reynhart]

Option B: Change BRD gameplay at the base, reducing mobility by giving cast times to some abilities, retune or redesign the procs to work with the new gameplay

Since the casting times is what most people complains about, I don't see how it's a solution. Besides, BRD have so few GCD in its "rotation", what would be some abilities ?

And at that point it becomes having an extra button to push for its own sake, which is bad design.

It's not bad design, it's "not holding your hand".
So basically, you'd like a buff to BRD that improves your DPS when you stand still without any input from you, and that automatically cancels itself if you move ?

I also like my PLD to turn automatically to block an attack so that I don't have to care about my facing...

So.. Why they decided to add casting times to WM and not taking any other possible approach?

Because I'm pretty sure that whatever downside they put, people would still complain about it. And that pretty much everything comes with a downside, it's what makes your decisions matter.

And I usually don't know that I have to move, because it seems that SE started to love random-target aoe's in 3.x, so you never know. (a3s start for example. sometimes I don't have to move at all, sometimes I have to make a quarter of circle around a boss then move back before 2-nd attack).

Random target AoE had always been a thing. But the moment where thos AoE comes is always the same.

I start next gcd cast after I moved. You can't start next heavy shot while still moving in repelling shot because of animation lock

You can start a GCD before the very end of the oGCD animation (That's why I never finish the cool animation of Reprisal with my DRK).

Maybe this. So what then? Turn it off, then wait? Doesn't look like smooth gameplay to me.

It's not that big of a deal. It will only make one more GCD under the effect of Minuet, which shouldn't be a problem unless you cancel just before an AoE appear on you (See my 1st point for that)