Yoshi P / Dev Team: FAVOR System - Please Fix This BROKEN System

[Rath]

Why do you feel this is a bad thing? Why is everyone having the opportunity to make/obtain high level gear induce such a level of distaste from the "hardcore"? Because it takes away your ability to make millions? Because you don't get to feel awesome and special wearing a special glamour?.

I am a casual fyi. Edited when I got home from here on: So I have no idea what distaste you are referring to.

Casual does not mean lazy, lower class, not willing to earn things, and it does not mean I do not like to feel a sense of accomplishment. It also has nothing to do with making millions. I get to make millions, and feel awesome when I have a special glamour. It has nothing to do with hardcore or casual.

Gates don't help "casuals", they keep them in a permanent underclass.

In fact removing gates that affect the hardcore allows them to remain ahead of anyone with less time, as favors from blue scrips would allow. You can get thousands of blue scrips daily, but not if you are a casual player with less time. You would be forced to buy mats or fall behind if you were aiming for scrip gear or crafted gear. The current rgs gate slows everyone to a very casual pace. You need to craft 1-7 items daily for your scrips or all at once, your choice. You can then buy the casual gear with your scrips tokens, or use favor mats and your tokens to obtain the mats to craft non-casual gear that requires melds.

One option requires little to no effort for gear that is better then anything but the HQ crafted/melded 2 star gear. The other is the more expensive HQ 2 star melded option. Both options have very little advantage over the HQ melded non-starred lvl 60 gear.

Even with billions in gil the resources are limited since the gatherers supplying the mats are also restricted by RGS. This further gates those with more time and allows casual players time to catch up before this gear is actually needed for something.

[Aeyis]

Why do you feel this is a bad thing? Why is everyone having the opportunity to make/obtain high level gear induce such a level of distaste from the "hardcore"? Because it takes away your ability to make millions? Because you don't get to feel awesome and special wearing a special glamour?

Gates don't help "casuals", they keep them in a permanent underclass.

What you are suggesting favors the hardcore actually. Since time investment would still be required.


Don't consider this topic a hardcore vs casual discussion, because it is not.

I'm aware that some give the impression that it's hardcore players disagreeing, but dont be fooled.
Hardcore and casuals alike would rather see a system where we werent gated by RNG grinding, weekly caps, and with an actual reward at the end.

Doesn't really answer the question.

He is whatever is required to make it seem like he's arguing from the right point of view. Which in this case would be the ''casual point of view'', so he's a casual.

[Aeyis]

But introducing it before the reward is even realized would be pretty unfortunate for those who were at the leading edge.

This comparison makes no sense. You cannot buy item drops from Alex after you already got yours for the week.
However for crafting having more materials on the market is in your benefit.

Regardless of whether its because you can get more, or others.


Besides, everyone expected a change. Anyone that did use the favors or tokens or whatever did so fully expecting it. Nay, hoping for it despite using their items.


Saying that it would be unfair to suddenly have higher yield despite all of this, just means you are using the argument for arguments sake rather then actually considering if it applies here.


''It would be unfair'' No, it would not. Unfair is having the system in its previous broken state implemented in the first place.

[Thrustie]

This comparison makes no sense. You cannot buy item drops from Alex after you already got yours for the week.
However for crafting having more materials on the market is in your benefit.

Regardless of whether its because you can get more, or others.


Besides, everyone expected a change. Anyone that did use the favors or tokens or whatever did so fully expecting it. Nay, hoping for it despite using their items.


Saying that it would be unfair to suddenly have higher yield despite all of this, just means you are using the argument for arguments sake rather then actually considering if it applies here.


''It would be unfair'' No, it would not. Unfair is having the system in its previous broken state implemented in the first place.

You talk like you speak on behalf of the whole community. You don't. I wanted a change to the time spent, not the yield, so get off your pedestal. It's not an argument for the sake of an argument. Your points do nothing to diminish the fact that suddenly increasing the yield 5 weeks into a progression patch where people can bank and hoard tokens would have been goofy and unfair. Your silly Miss Cleo crystal ball argument doesn't hold any water. There's people out there who probably did favors and don't even come on these forums.

You perceive that the whole crafting system is broken. I've seen your tirades in every thread for the past month. So it's no surprise that you believe any change to the system is warranted and desired. Not everyone agrees with you and your lack of empathy for anyone with an opinion differing from yours really discredits you.

[Ossom]

You talk like you speak on behalf of the whole community. You don't. I wanted a change to the time spent, not the yield, so get off your pedestal. It's not an argument for the sake of an argument. Your points do nothing to diminish the fact that suddenly increasing the yield 5 weeks into a progression patch where people can bank and hoard tokens would have been goofy and unfair. Your silly Miss Cleo crystal ball argument doesn't hold any water. There's people out there who probably did favors and don't even come on these forums.

You perceive that the whole crafting system is broken. I've seen your tirades in every thread for the past month. So it's no surprise that you believe any change to the system is warranted and desired. Not everyone agrees with you and your lack of empathy for anyone with an opinion differing from yours really discredits you.

100% Agree. I see her post in every thread as if the favor system is completely broken and the only way it could be fixed is if other gatherers used their red scrips to gatherer her favor items and sell them to her for cheap.That's what she wants, but its not gonna happen.

I've been doing favors since the get go and the old system worked for me, I had pretty much full WVR set done before 3.07 and now I almost have the full LTW set done also. Im about 4 pieces away from being done and moving on to the next set. System seems to be working very fine.

@Seorin you nerf content when it is no longer thee relevant content of the game at the time. Right now, Favors and 2 Star crafts are the end game. When should this stuff be nerfed? In 3.2~3.4 When 3 star comes out and we are looking at newer accessories or full sets of gear. This is how they've always done nerfs. With raids and with gathering requirements.

[Aeyis]

You talk like you speak on behalf of the whole community. You don't.

I talk as tho I got a clear understanding of many (not all) perspectives that people in our community will have on (this) topic.
I do. Because I try to understanding perspectives that arent mine.
As is outlined in my arguments. You can always read those, and see for yourself.
I never claim to speak for 100% of the community. But if I bother to make posts like those you can be damned I'll understand most of the (realistic) perspectives involved.
Which I show via my arguments.

I wanted a change to the time spent, not the yield, so get off your pedestal.

My ''pedestal'' is made up by my arguments. If you don't want me to look down from on top of them, you should consider actually trying to use solid arguments yourself.
But all you can seem to do is defend a failing system (of crafting, of gathering).

It's not an argument for the sake of an argument.

Yes it is, otherwise you would respond to my individual arguments, instead of responding to my posts in their entirety, and claiming I'm ''on a high horse'' and ''falsely claiming to represent the community''.

Your points do nothing to diminish the fact that suddenly increasing the yield 5 weeks into a progression patch where people can bank and hoard tokens would have been goofy and unfair. Your silly Miss Cleo crystal ball argument doesn't hold any water. There's people out there who probably did favors and don't even come on these forums.

Ofcourse there are. Just as there are many more who didnt do favors and don't even come on these forums. Only a very small % of people in general use these forums.
That's no argument for your cause, or mine.

I believe they did diminish it, since it's not a ''fact'' to begin with. Remember favor grinding was a huge grind. I can confidently say that the majority of those that did favor grind before, were pretty hardcore. We have some of the most hardcore players in this game fervently arguing against gathering and crafting in its (previous)/ current state.

As someone who actually did spend my tokens, I too felt it would be fair to increase them.


Because the system needed to be changed, and im not selfish enough to screw over the rest of the community for my own selfish desires.
Or for that my matter, to screw myself over. A boost to yield would also effect my own future yields.


I mentioned this argument several times, you've yet to properly respond to it even once, why?
- If material yield is increased, then your own future yield is also increased.
You wouldnt lose out, you would gain.


Ofcourse it would have been better to increase the yield sooner. Did you perchance also read over the parts in previous posts where I said they should have made these adjustments before even letting the system go live?
I guess you did.

You perceive that the whole crafting system is broken.

Yes, and apparently a whole lot of people agree with me. Everyone with enough information should, I think.

I've seen your tirades in every thread for the past month. So it's no surprise that you believe any change to the system is warranted and desired.

Where did you read that? Because I would only want an actual good change. As for my tirades, I've made several constructed posts on why the systems are broken.
You are free to disagree with my conclusions, but its hard to argue with the facts I've posted in the past. (lack of recipes, poorly tuned)

Not everyone agrees with you and your lack of empathy for anyone with an opinion differing from yours really discredits you.

I dont think you can discredit me. Unfortunately you dont respond to arguments, you only attack.


I have a lot of empathy for people that disagree with me. But I don't have much empathy for mules who hit walls 5 times in a row and insist there is no wall in front of them.
If you go out of your way to ''disagree'', while also avoiding responding to arguments; then yes; you wont get much empathy from me.

[Alexiell]

^thats exactly why i said increasing the yield would have been unfair. I dont mind if everyone can do it easier now, its just that people who did all favors before the patch would be behind despite having farmed 3 times longer. I dont know why people want a higher yield anyway, we get enough mats to use all our crafter tokens.

[seorin]

I dont know why people want a higher yield anyway, we get enough mats to use all our crafter tokens.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I agree that increasing yield would be a bad fix. I do want a meaningful fix, though. I'd love to see them move favors to blue scrip. Then put some of the two star crafting mats on the law vendor and we'd actually have a fairly functional system.

[Aeyis]

Because there is one kind of people I can't stand. These kind:





And to be blunt, your posts (on the topic of crafting and gathering in HW) are kind of like this.


If you want to look down on me, then earn that right. By building a mountain of solid arguments you can stand on top, and look down on me. So that you can truly say ''I do not argue, for arguments sake. Here are my arguments to blow yours away, and prove it''


Otherwise, this is as much as I'll care to properly respond to your posts.


Because your only ridiculing yourself as someone not invested into gathering or crafting by comparing things like raiding and crafting.

[Sibyll]

snip

I might have misinterpreted your post or worded mine poorly, but yes I was trying to say that by allowing more players to participate in Favor farming it would open up more potential supply on the market board. This of course assumes that the people that begin doing these will be doing it to sell and not for personal use.

To address the argument at hand, I think we can at least agree that people were dissatisfied with both the time required to obtain the materials and the yield/RNG per favor. From the stand point of trying to increase overall materials on the board I still think that reducing the time commitment is the better approach to begin with because it increases QoL for people already doing the Favors while making it more accessible to those who were deterred from it. A flat yield increase would of course increase QoL for people doing it because they'd have to do less favors or get more for the ones they already are doing, but I don't see this mattering to someone that didn't want to spend 15 mins per favor because they didn't want to spend 15 mins gathering an RNG drop. I'm not saying I wouldn't appreciate a yield increase, but for me the time was the discouraging factor more than the yields were and it's not obvious to me that a flat yield increase would outweigh the benefit of opening up more people to spending their scrips on favors.

Honestly I don't think even yield increases will change the problem with the inherently convoluted system. Gathering favors only serves to give pure crafters a way of obtaining favor materials to turn-in for the actual crafting materials, but this could've been accomplished by just having a flat exchange between RGTs and favor materials. If they insist on keeping the RNG then the favors could be a satchel that you open for a chance to drop some RNG amount of Ooids and possibly Roundstones of the appropriate zone.

The other thing is they have alienated so much of the player base from participating in the economy by designing it this way. In 2.x you had Tomes which allowed anyone with a max level combat class to sell materials on the marketboard. Ehcatl Sealants allowed anyone that had a level 1 DoH/DoL class and rep capped Ixali to make pretty easy money. With Red Scrips you need a max level gatherer that is at least geared in the blue scrip gear and has a HQ crafted MH/OH and at least 2.x melded accessories. At this point the only way to get the non-crafter/gathers into the system is to have materials that are purchased via Law tomes and I do not see a way of doing that works with the current design.

I don't understand why they removed DoW/DoM from the economy in the manner they did, while at the same time giving us i180 DoW/DoM recipes.