Jeebus the red script grind is real.

[Rin_Kuroi]

I would argue the fun part is completing the story campaign. the endgame is to keep people playing past the initial 50 hour campaign. The whole point is to offer good items and make them hard to get. If they give you all the crafting items super easy, then what do you do? If your goal is to not have to play the game anymore you can do that right now, and come back next patch/expansion.

You just don't need this kind of grind to keep people logging in every day between patches.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

You do. You need to give players a long term goal to achieve. Without it, people unsub and SE loses money. That's the MMO mentality.

[Rin_Kuroi]

You do. You need to give players a long term goal to achieve. Without it, people unsub and SE loses money. That's the MMO mentality.

Not for the people who have day jobs, friends and families. I can play 20+hours per week and this grind is ridiculous.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

That makes you a casual player. I would say at that point, don't worry too much about capping everything and just enjoy the game at your own pace. This grind *does* look ridiculous to a casual player because of the time you need to invest. However, you have responsibilities/other things you want to do. I would say the system is fair then since Bleeding Edge MMO content (before it gets nerfed) is typically designed for the hardcore player.

[Rin_Kuroi]

That makes you a casual player. I would say at that point, don't worry too much about capping everything and just enjoy the game at your own pace. This grind *does* look ridiculous to a casual player because of the time you need to invest. However, you have responsibilities/other things you want to do. I would say the system is fair then since Bleeding Edge MMO content (before it gets nerfed) is typically designed for the hardcore player.

I'll probably be pushing a3 savage next week. Lol causal. You don't know the meaning of the word. Pushing the edge of raid content is less time consuming then the gathering system.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

That's merely because you dedicate yourself to combat classes. Your overall time invested would label you a casual player, at least in my eyes. You can be a raider and be a casual player.

If you dedicated yourself to gathering, the system is actually not that bad. I could make the same argument for raiding content to those who didn't invest themselves in combat. They would have the same problems as you do.

Please don't insult me when you cannot see the obvious. It is simply *impossible* for you to have everything in an MMO and this game specifically with how you choose to have your free time structured.

[Rin_Kuroi]

snip

Right. End game means different things for different people. An end game gatherer or crafter has to spend a stupid amount of time more then an end raider. Your labels and silly justifications can't get around that fact.

[Intaki]

You do. You need to give players a long term goal to achieve. Without it, people unsub and SE loses money. That's the MMO mentality.

SE needs players to log in every month, not every day. The grind as it is now, especially given the cap, is ridiculous and does no one any good; not the players and not SE.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Fair enough, I suppose. I would disagree on how it does no one any good. From what I understand, people are upset they can't achieve the goals faster than what is intended.

[Intaki]

Fair enough, I suppose. I would disagree on how it does no one any good. From what I understand, people are upset they can't achieve the goals faster than what is intended.

Functionally speaking, what is accomplished by making the weekly red scrip grind take 8-10 hours rather than 3-4? A grind has its place, as does a cap. Grinding is meant to gate progress by effort, whereas caps are used to gate progress by time. Each of them should be used as necessary, but they should never be used together.