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  1. #21
    Player
    HeavensSword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Marik Landzaat
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by 416to305 View Post
    Right except what I said was Spire came up 6 times in a row, then Spear, Spire, Spear. The Balance didn't come up one single time, so how is that random? If it was truly random then it would be an actual mix of the 6. There's no way to get Spear and Spire that many times and not the Balance once.
    Random doesn't mean "get different things every time". Random is random and sometimes you can get the same outcome many times in a row. We may perceive that as "unlucky", but it is still very much random.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player
    Kumori_Kumo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Kumori Kumo
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    For the people who are talking about computer RNG: If you have six actual cards to draw, and you shuffle one back into the deck, there's really no practice currently in card games/fortune telling that would give you the same card again. You don't shuffle the whole deck for one card. Unless the astrologian has a deck full of the same six cards copied four times or something, which strikes me as staggeringly dumb. There's no way for this to happen and your character not to seem like a total idiot. Which is reason enough for me to say this is definitely an oversight, to say nothing of the frustration one must feel in using an ability which has an aspect that makes no sense.
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player
    HeavensSword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Marik Landzaat
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumori_Kumo View Post
    For the people who are talking about computer RNG: If you have six actual cards to draw, and you shuffle one back into the deck, there's really no practice currently in card games/fortune telling that would give you the same card again. You don't shuffle the whole deck for one card. Unless the astrologian has a deck full of the same six cards copied four times or something, which strikes me as staggeringly dumb. There's no way for this to happen and your character not to seem like a total idiot. Which is reason enough for me to say this is definitely an oversight, to say nothing of the frustration one must feel in using an ability which has an aspect that makes no sense.
    Splitting hairs at this point, but 6 cards isn't really much of a "deck". I actually would expect there to be 3-4 of each card.

    Regardless, I think it would be nice if shuffle prevented you from drawing the card you just returned, but I don't think it is wrong to draw the same card in a row (if you haven't used shuffle).
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    Kumori_Kumo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Kumori Kumo
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavensSword View Post
    Splitting hairs at this point, but 6 cards isn't really much of a "deck"
    A deck of cards being larger is a design to a) give more hands to more players, and b) make it hard for players to predict the next card. Seeing as this particular 'game' has only one player (the astro) who is also the dealer, it actually doesn't require a bunch of cards; it's more of a wheel-of-fortune type situation where there's only a few possibilities and the singular or two card draws are the trick.

    I don't think it is wrong to draw the same card in a row (if you haven't used shuffle).
    And when you store/use a card like that, it's a slightly different symbol, meaning it's probably some manner of token instead of the card itself. It might be a slight stretch, but I could see a Royal Road being cause for an actual shuffle after you've placed a marker, especially in a game with this few cards.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Violin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    34
    Character
    Indigo Lux
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    3 1 1 4 1 1 4 3 1 3 1 1 2 6 3 6 6 6 6 5 1 5 4 5 6 5 6 3 1 5 4 3 4 2 6 5 2 2 2 1 4 3 3 4 1 3 2 4 3 6
    4 2 3 6 4 5 3 1 1 5 2 5 4 2 4 1 3 3 6 3 6 3 4 1 5 2 3 4 5 5 6 6 1 6 1 2 4 4 6 1 3 6 5 4 1 3 6 2 2 4 5 2

    1 - Spire 19/100
    2 - Bole 14/100
    3 - Balance 19/100
    4 - Arrow 16/100
    5 - Spear 14/100
    6 - Ewer 18/100


    This is just a sampling of 100 card draws/shuffles when off CD. I mean it's pretty much even in a larger pool. The problem is that when you get stuck with a small sample that is filled with majority of one number it feels like it's not random.
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player
    Publius85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Publius Kami
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by 416to305 View Post
    I tried playing my level 51 AST again today and got it to 52. I refuse to believe the cards are random at all. I got Spire 6 times in a row on Dusk Vigil, then it was a mix back and forth between Spear and Spire again. I'd get Spire, shuffle, and Spire again. After the 6th time I got Spear, shuffle and up comes Spire again. The entire dungeon I didn't get the Balance a single time, Ewer around twice and arrow a few times, every other time was Spear and Spire with Bole mixed in a few times as well. If it was truly random then that would be impossible.
    Based on the definition of random and the mechanics of the cards your example is 100% how random works. If you get to manipulate the cards to get what you want when you want then that would be the cards not being random.
    (1)

  7. #27
    Player
    Kietsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    279
    Character
    Kyett Corbeau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Food for thought: The chance of not drawing the Balance ten times in a row is mathematically greater than the chance of getting a Freecure proc when you cast Cure.
    (0)

  8. #28
    Player
    Vlady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    635
    Character
    Fomortis Vulen
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kietsu View Post
    Food for thought: The chance of not drawing the Balance ten times in a row is mathematically greater than the chance of getting a Freecure proc when you cast Cure.
    Until you throw in your number of casts of cure one compared to drawing a card every 30 seconds.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player
    Kietsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    279
    Character
    Kyett Corbeau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlady View Post
    Until you throw in your number of casts of cure one compared to drawing a card every 30 seconds.
    I didn't say frequency. I'm just saying that people seem to think not getting what you want over the course of five minutes is completely impossible and clearly the RNG is broken, when it's honestly fairly probable.
    (0)

  10. #30
    Player
    Zfz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,371
    Character
    Celenir Istarkh
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    It's a game. When do you use Shuffle? When you don't want that card. Allowing shuffle to draw the the same card again directly conflicts with the only usage scenario of the skill.

    There are often times in a game when you just need to say fuck physics, fuck statistics, fuck logic, this is what makes it more fun.
    (6)
    “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

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