Things I'm starting to hate on AST

[Vlady]

No matter what I do to prove it will be either ignored or picked apart and compared to other posts where I was talking about normal which I did specify normal so if you want to meet in game to discuss this over me wasting my 20 post count for trying to defend myself then we can always meet in game and show tests with buffed cards and without pretty easily. I am not a numbers math person so I am not going to throw formulas over something much more simple which is being in a group and parsing the highest dps job in the game with and without buffs for comparison which I did both as a test and in raids.

My credibility has nothing to do with the fact that astrologians are fine in dealing with all content in the game. You like to go beyond that and state we do not have the healing of a white mage or the personal dps of a scholar in which we should not because we were designed to boost other people's offensive/defensive abilities which is what we do well.

You can continue to downplay the job all you want but you do not have to play it. I am sorry that some people do not want to take the time to master the cards for proper use to maximize its effect but yes if you keep pulling them and randomly slinging them out you will be behind the other two jobs because astrologian does require tight monitoring of other jobs for max card use which is something the other jobs do not have to worry about.

[DarkmoonVael]

No matter what I do to prove it will be either ignored or picked apart and compared to other posts where I was talking about normal which I did specify normal so if you want to meet in game to discuss this over me wasting my 20 post count for trying to defend myself then we can always meet in game and show tests with buffed cards and without pretty easily. I am not a numbers math person so I am not going to throw formulas over something much more simple which is being in a group and parsing the highest dps job in the game with and without buffs for comparison which I did both as a test and in raids.

My credibility has nothing to do with the fact that astrologians are fine in dealing with all content in the game. You like to go beyond that and state we do not have the healing of a white mage or the personal dps of a scholar in which we should not because we were designed to boost other people's offensive/defensive abilities which is what we do well.

You can continue to downplay the job all you want but you do not have to play it. I am sorry that some people do not want to take the time to master the cards for proper use to maximize its effect but yes if you keep pulling them and randomly slinging them out you will be behind the other two jobs because astrologian does require tight monitoring of other jobs for max card use which is something the other jobs do not have to worry about.

Sorry Vlady, this response just does not fly. When asked to prove somehting, you retreat, and have the gaul to suggest someone pays money to transfer to your server, otherwise you wont back up what you say. How out of touch with reality are you? Seriously, just seriously stop.

If you dont want to "waste posts" then dont post, its that simple. You have the choice to post or not.

You posts are picked apart due to egregious misinformation you load them with. You havent been able to back up one claim you have made so far, and then wonder why people pick them apart when they are so glaringly wrong. People can do the same with mine if they want, this is the nature of posting on internet forums. If i make mistakes then someone will pick me up on them.

Now back to actual topic of AST. No matter which way you try and argue it, its HPS is significantly lower than both SCH and WHM. Im content where HOs thresholds are needed for progression, ASt just doesnt cut it like the other 2 healers. There is no validity to your notion that this should be the case sine it brings "buffs". Why is this? Well the buffs dont bring anything more significant than either a SCH or WHM buffs do. You can argue with imaginary figures of buffing dragoon dps by 400, or telling forum member thta you wont back up anythign you say unless they pay to transfer to your server all you like. SCH dps buff has consistency, it personal dps is beastly in a raid. WHM has commendable dps in raids even with it mp issues compared to SCH, but more than anything, a WHM facilitates SCh dps in raids. AST does non of this. It has RNG that can make no imoact on a fight what so ever, and lacks the healing throughput and cooldowns to facilitate other healers to dps.

Also, do not mistake underpowered equating a class that requires more skill, this is just a fallacious argument. AST is far easier to heal on than SCH, has less resources to deal with and has a very similar healing style to WHM, yet lacks the ability and power of WHM.

People want changes to AST to make them competitive with the other two healers. There really is no need to White Knight it to the extent that you are doing, especially when the claims can not be substantiated.

[Vlady]

Yes some people want to change how a job works and remake it into something else. Some people want it to have potency boost and white mage level healing cooldowns. You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility. You seem to have an issue with the astrologian filling that niche which it does and yes it will receive more fixes but please do not get your hopes up because the healing and buffs are what is fine about the job. It is the range of cards to an extent and the fact we lost our ability to be versatile in combat

And you can expect people to take you seriously when you think its a bad idea that white mage can outheal astrologians in oh shit situation? Sorry but that does not fly when you go from drama on the forums to actually playing the game.

[Luvbunny]

You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility.

Sorry, right now AST has NO NICHE at all, unless you call "novelty healer with nice animation" is a niche. The buffs are significantly worse than what SCH can bring. The randomness are just pure garbage. None of their so called stance is ANY GOOD at all. The damage improving is just a fallacy, too random to be meaningful when you compared to what Bard can bring. Versatility??? LMAO, you are joking right? AST cannot stance dance once the battle starts. When "shit hit the fans", AST would be totally wrecked, with no way to recover the party's HP fast enough, nor able to sustain itself in a long fight where MP management become a BIG issue. AST is AMAZING at content below level 50, at level 30, this job is THE BEST out there compare to the other two. At level 60, is the WORST healer in the game.

If the so called versatile is being able to switch to "WHM or SCH" stance to complement the other healer, then by all means, AST should be able to heal JUST AS GOOD as the other healer in the respective stance. As of right now, the so called "card buffs" are just nice to throw in once in awhile - since these buffs are just so small due to randomness to be able to be any good on level 60 content. SCH + Bard in a party is far far better set up if you want a buffer. There is no place for AST on endgame content. WHM + SCH + Bard is your three must have for the combination. AST cannot, will not, and never going to replace that set unless SE make changes and fix AST as the niche healer who can buff the party REALLY REALLY good!!

By the way, I like AST, and I want this job to become what has been promised. A healer who can buffs, really good, and can become either SCH or WHM depending on the stance, to complement the other healer. Right now, it's a job that cannot do all the things that have been "sold and advertised" before launch.

[DarkmoonVael]

Yes some people want to change how a job works and remake it into something else. Some people want it to have potency boost and white mage level healing cooldowns. You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility. You seem to have an issue with the astrologian filling that niche which it does and yes it will receive more fixes but please do not get your hopes up because the healing and buffs are what is fine about the job. It is the range of cards to an extent and the fact we lost our ability to be versatile in combat

And you can expect people to take you seriously when you think its a bad idea that white mage can outheal astrologians in oh shit situation? Sorry but that does not fly when you go from drama on the forums to actually playing the game.

AST is not versatile. It is locked into a stance from the start of the encounter to the end. It lacks the insta cast abilities that allow the other two healer jobs the room to manoeuvre and be versatile in the encounter.

The defence of AST being it shouldnt be able to heal to SCH or WHM level due to cards is fallacious beyond belief. Both this jobs can heal the encounter far better than the AST can and bring more with them. The AST has lackluster buffs that rely in attempting to tame RNG to get anything out of them. If, as you argue, it is a support healer, then it has to be able to replace the need to take a MCH or BRD into a raid. Can it do this? Nope, not at all. If we persue this support argument you make, the choice for a raid team should be which one of the AST, MCH and BRD is taken for support. Take an AST then you take 4 nonsupport DPS. Its weaker at healing than WHM and SCH, and it support functionality is far far far far weaker than BRD and MCH. Both things its supposed to do it cant.

[SovereignAegis]

Yes some people want to change how a job works and remake it into something else. Some people want it to have potency boost and white mage level healing cooldowns. You bring the white mage for the pure burst healing and the scholar for its utility and mitigation. You bring the astrologian for its damage improving buffs and its versatility. You seem to have an issue with the astrologian filling that niche which it does and yes it will receive more fixes but please do not get your hopes up because the healing and buffs are what is fine about the job. It is the range of cards to an extent and the fact we lost our ability to be versatile in combat

And you can expect people to take you seriously when you think its a bad idea that white mage can outheal astrologians in oh shit situation? Sorry but that does not fly when you go from drama on the forums to actually playing the game.

Most of us don't want it to become a scholar/WHM clone. Most of us want the card system to be emphasized further.

The thing is the card's utility that are brought PALE in comparison to what a WHM/SCH can do utility AND healing wise. AST cards are not strong enough to justify taking it over a WHM or SCH who have guaranteed and potent effects. Both get e4e and virus for instance(whm only deals with physical, thankfully that is the ridiculous majority of the damage), WHM can just dps more because they have a lot more healing power going out than AST can make through sheer potency domination. Scholar's Selene buff is a GUARANTEED (although slightly less potent) spread arrow every minute for 30 seconds.

Am I saying nerf SCH/WHM? OH HELL NO.

But make AST different than them and emphasize that difference. We should rejoice in the differences and embellish upon them. At present though the difference is NOT strong enough to justify taking it in more difficult content over other proven and guaranteed utility through WHM and SCH.


Furhtermore it is cluttered with useless garbage skills like: disable, celestial opposition, and their useless self-stunning dome (collective unconscious) that I find a pitiful joke after playing WHM where I throw down Asylum and forget about it. I'm not even going to be nice about it, these 3 skills are utter garbage. Right up there with Scholar's fairy killing dissipation ability. Hell even Gravity is a cheap knockoff of Holy because it lacks a stun. Trying to do the Vault on AST after doing it on WHM is jarring because that AOE stun is INSANELY useful and noticeable. Also stella is garbage, pretty but useless.

[Ghishlain]

No matter what I do to prove

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

[GideonHighmourn]

Prove

1. to test the truth, validity, or genuineness of
2. to test the worth or quality of; specifically : to compare against a standard
3. to check the correctness of (as an arithmetic result)
4. to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic)

You have not demonstrated any truth, validity, logic, correctness, existence of truth, etc.

A statement, claim, number, idea without any logic or proof backing it up us not existence of proving something and thus you only make yourself look worse than you claim to be.

Essentially this. You have done nothing to prove what you claim and that's why people "pick apart" what you post, because most of it is filled with whimsical numbers that cannot possibly be achieved. Until you can actually prove what you're claiming, please refrain from posting misinformation as you continue to do when trying to "prove" what cards are capable or when comparing the healing potency or WHM vs AST.

It doesn't take "being good at math" to determine most of what you've claimed is patently false. Even with napkin math, at no point will cards add over 100DPS to an encounter unless that encounter is only 15 seconds long.

It doesn't take exhaustive testing to determine that AST isn't a better (or even equal, as you're claiming) healer than WHM, either. Just by comparing potency and CDs, it's easily determined that WHM is far better at both single-target healing and AoE healing.

You're credibility is nil at this point; the more you make wild claims like these, the less likely people are going to pay attention to anything you say. White knighting for a class does absolutely nothing for you or the class itself. As evidenced by many AST's, parses, and "napkin math", it's performance is lagging behind that of WHM/SCH.

The point of discussions like this isn't to demean AST or anyone playing it, but rather to provide feedback (as asked by SE) on the class in order to bring it's performance to a more competitive level. You seem to look at this as more of a personal attack, which it's not, and are completely unable to look at the subject objectively because of it.

Basically ... If you're going to make wild claims (cards adding 400 DPS, AST healing equal with WHM), be able to prove them. Otherwise, refrain from doing so or risk being called out on it as it is misinformation.