Warrior dps opener

[Casper]

I would like to discuss the opener from warriors with some people that tested it.

The opener for tanking is probably not about to change much except for using fell cleave instead of inner beast when possible, and there has been some talk of using a prepull of 30 seconds to get a 3 fell cleave berserk as OT.

The thing is, 30 sec prepull may not always be an option. In the case of a no prepull / 5 sec prepull, my gut feeling would be to go for something like:

HS->maim -> storm's eye->fracture->HS->maim->storm's eye or path->HS+berserk->fell cleave->infuriate->FC->maim->eye->HS->skull sunder->BB+ raw intuition->FC->fracture(end of berserk)

Obviously weaving in crit and pot CD in there too, but that's not what is at stake here.

The main question i have is: should one wait the 10 extra seconds before pulling the trigger on berserk ? Mainly i think the rest is self explanatiory. Now that no tank is locked into 123 hate combo, expecting to use BB combo second and not rip the aggro is a bit random, i would say.

Another question is: if you intend to do a 30 sec prepull, one must assume you are going most likely for a HS + berserk -> FC -> FC combo... How is any tank supposed to hold hate against this opening ? THey will not have completed their first hate combo by now, wouldn't you just give them no chance to build any hate ?

[Daega]

If you know you're going to pull hate then don't do it until decent aggro has been established. If you see your going too hard pull off and adjust. DPS have to do this quite often on a fresh pull when using certain CD's.

If you're running with a tank you know then make sure they are prepped for it to voke back and aggro combo if hate gets too out of wack.

[Souljacker]

I agree - it's a no-brainer. If you think you are going to overwhelm the main tank's threat and your job isn't main tank, why would you go out of your way to make his\her job harder? Main tanks hate it when DPS do it, they'll hate it when you do it as well even though you can take the hits.

Sometimes I think this community gets a little *too* obsessed with the numbers and doesn't look at the big picture of the overall fight. Fights aren't there so you can pull ACT full screen and just watch yourself soar above the rest. Have a mind for making sure that you're doing the best job for the whole team, not just ACT.

[Casper]

You guys did not understood me, at all. I never said i was considering trying to rip aggro -- i am discussing what is the optimal way to open up, mostly in a static setup. I am not obsessed with numbers, i merely look to optimize my job.

[Abbul_Stonecleaver]

I too have wondered about how worth saving Berserk that extra time vs 3 FCs.

But, 3 FCs is so exciting.


My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing). So far it seems if I try to switch over to Deliverance mid fight to sneak in FC or a Berserk with it, I get pummeled.

Also, with 3 FCs as OT opener when Alex gets released.. We have to hope that the initial "jump" or whatever the boss does to go invulnerable of get away or whatever doesn't occur until the Pacification would take place with this new rotation.

[Casper]

My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing). So far it seems if I try to switch over to Deliverance mid fight to sneak in FC or a Berserk with it, I get pummeled.

If you take 20% less damage, then it is as if you had the stance on. Just cover for your stance dance with CD -- pop vengeance before deliverance and you will actually be sturdier than having none of the two. Pop Raw intuition and you actually are more or less the same as with defiance on, assuming the boss only does physical attacks in the meantime.

If you can't spare any CD for such use because the boss is actually hitting you too hard and you need them for defense... Might i kindly suggest that this may be the indication that you should not get out of defiance at all for this fight ?

[whiskeybravo]

Obviously in a raid situation where you do the 60 sec pre-pull is going to be best. For everything else so far, I don't even use infuriate on the pull. Pull with Deliverance, Tomahawk>(Vengeance)>HS>(IR)>SS>(brutal+Berserk)>BB for solid hate, HS>Maim>SE, Double Fell Cleave, Fracture.. Then Berserk falls off after 2 more actions, pretty much just rotate all cds until I have nothing left then switch to defiance and use Unchained. Whenever Vengeance is back up switch back to Deliverance and repeat. As for OT in general tho, doesn't seem much has changed outside of Fell Cleave for IB.

[SpookyGhost]

Another question is: if you intend to do a 30 sec prepull, one must assume you are going most likely for a HS + berserk -> FC -> FC combo... How is any tank supposed to hold hate against this opening ? THey will not have completed their first hate combo by now, wouldn't you just give them no chance to build any hate ?

fracture -> ir + zerk -> fell cleave -> hs -> maim -> eye -> raw intuition -> hs -> maim -> path -> fell cleave -> infuriate -> fell cleave

Haven't done any testing for OT openers yet, but that should work.

[Casper]

fracture -> ir + zerk -> fell cleave -> hs -> maim -> eye -> raw intuition -> hs -> maim -> path -> fell cleave -> infuriate -> fell cleave

Haven't done any testing for OT openers yet, but that should work.

In that opening though, you don't have maim and eye up for the first fracture, nor for the first cleave, yet it is still more frontloaded on damage than the other and more risky to pull aggro...

I don't know, i'm relly not sure about the benefits of a 30sec prepull. The more quiet

HS->maim -> storm's eye->fracture->HS->maim->storm's eye or path->HS+berserk->fell cleave->infuriate->FC->maim->eye->HS->skull sunder->BB+ raw intuition->FC->fracture(end of berserk)

Seems both more reliable (giving 10 sec to the MT to build aggro) and more overall dps (thats really to be seen in details). It depends on wether you lose more waiting for things to be ready, but at least all important attacks benefits from the buffs you want

I'll do some testing later. Right now i can't do a 9hit berserk... stupid nerf to SS, we need lots and lots more now :s

[Amazing]

My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing).

Its good to stance dance when Equilibrium is up, specially with Berserk. Basically what you can do is, switch to deliverance when your hp is at about 75% (it will turn to 100% upon deliverance activation), with berserk increasing equilibrium healed amount, you can switch to Defiance and hit equilibrium.

My opener as MT is usually like this:
HS-> SS-> BB-> HS-> Maim-> SE-> Berserk(GCD)-> Deliverance(GCD)-> Fracture-> Internal Release(GCD)-> Bloodbath(GCD)-> Fell Cleave-> Infuriate-> Fell Cleave-> HS-> SS-> BB(insert crit prayer here)-> [here u will have about 4~ seconds on berserk, you can reapply Fracture if u know u wont switch to deliverance in the next 17seconds~]-> Defiance-> Equilibrium-> rest of the fight.


Hope this gives some insights.