Tanking and weapon level sync

[Shalan]

Hey all, quick tanking question here.
Story:
I was doing my daily dungeon finder and it landed Hawke Manner on my level 28 Gladiator and I ran into a few problems pulling enmity/aggro off one of our DPS. A level 39 Ninja was repeatedly pulling some serious amounts of enmity to the point where the mob was either focusing on him or was about to. This had a cascading effect as I would have to put my full focus onto whatever mob he was fighting leaving the aggro levels on other mobs to grow nearly unchecked.

Flash helped bandage things but I wasn't able to cast it often as I had to use my enmity combo (Fast Blade > Savage Blade or Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone) constantly to keep mobs off the Ninja. I would normally save my Provoke for runaway mobs but I struggled when it was on cooldown.

The problem:
So when I asked the group about what I could do it help fix this problem they said they didn't know and it was probably the weapon leveling sync causing his weapon to be much better than my own, causing me to lose that enmity which I gained.

Questions:
So how can I solve this?
Do I just grit my teeth and bear through it?
Should I be putting more points into Strength?
Is there a cross-class ability I can get/use?
Or is the only thing I can do is level up till I get a good enough weapon myself so it doesn't matter?

Side things:
I normally do the following to gain enmity in a fight.
Start with Shield Lob
Flash x2
Enmity combo (Fast Blade > Savage Blade or Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone) as needed, switching targets on occasion to control aggro on multiple enemies.
Use Provoke when I lose a mob and Shield Lob can't bring it back.

[ruskie]

You should flash in between your combos as well. And really if you have rage of halone available use it fully. Never just go half way. But yeah do a full rage of halone, then flash and repeat. When I was leveling gladiator/paladin I had 2 friends that were doing rog/nins at the time. And they usually picked different mobs to attack. That was some good training for me to keep aggro off them.

[Shalan]

If we're at the point where his enmity bar is about 95% full (missing out on a combo usually means the mob attacks him) would a Flash keep the mob on me or would I lose it before I can pick up the next combo?
And I normally do a full Halone combo on the enemy, just sometimes I switch it out and do Halone if I'm about to lose a mob to another player (sometimes DPS isn't attacking the same target). It wasn't something I had to do often but I put it in anyways.

I should probably add that I didn't lose aggro to him much (the bar was just on the borderline of losing the mob) but the few times I did lose it are a few too many imo. Just want to try and avoid such things in the future to give myself more breathing room.

[ruskie]

If we're at the point where his enmity bar is about 95% full (missing out on a combo usually means the mob attacks him) would a Flash keep the mob on me or would I lose it before I can pick up the next combo?
And I normally do a full Halone combo on the enemy, just sometimes I switch it out and do Halone if I'm about to lose a mob to another player (sometimes DPS isn't attacking the same target).

It's generally better to do a combo than a single non comboed skill. You also you should be poping fight or flight as you are pulling. That should give you some help with the enmity since more damage = more enmity.

A shield lob gives you 120 potency attack with increased enmity vs a 100 potency with increased enmtiy that is an uncomboed halone. So that might be the better choice. For provoke you should if you are not mid combo a provoke then shield lob(provoke only gives you highest enmity+1 on the mob so need to follow it up with something extra) if you are mid combo like you did a fast blade and now have savage blade or even are ready for halone do provoke first then halone(if in range) that will give you all the enmity and a large chunk of a head start.

But yes I've often had it said that gld/pld should be using flash in between combos. How often is usually left to the player to decide but I'd say something like fight or flight, shield lob, flash 2-3x, full combo on the pulled one twice, flash, if can do a full combo on another else keep repeating it combo and flash.

The problem is also that DPS don't often take into account a tanks relative gear and skill differences so don't ease up a bit.

[elemental10]

The first thing you have to realize if you're PLD is you have the worst enmity generation out of the three tanks by a moderate margin.


Having realize that, now you have to get used to OP people ripping agro off of you. It will happen, even if in high levels.

The thing that you have to get used to is effective tanking.

By your pull with shield lob, you will establish a decent agro on the single mob. Then, you will flash 2 times to get a lead on mob's agro. Then focus on the highest DPS' target and slam away your Rage of Halone. Selectively, you can also cycle through enemies and Rage of Halone each one if you think you have enough agro. Watch your agro meter (i'm assuming you know what this is.)

So, your rotation is not the problem.

The trick that I use when I'm PLD is this:

If (DPS agro on target is more than 50% AND target has more than 25%~ HP left), Rage of Halone and Flash once.
If (DPS agro on target is more than 50% AND target has less than 25%~ HP left), Flash once OR Shield Bash (if target can be stunned).
If (DPS agro on target is less than 50% AND target has more than 25%~ HP left), Rage of Halone OR flash once.
If (DPS agro on target is less than 50% AND target has less than 25%~ HP left), switch target.

The numbers and percentages depend on two things:

a) Your enmity generation.
b) DPS.

If your enmity generation is good, you can let DPS pummel a target more time while you establish agro on a different target.
If your DPS is good, you need to Rage of Halone at least 2 times then the target's HP will hopefully be less than 25%~. If not, refer to rules above.

That's the trick. But the technique to pull this off needs experience. Even high level PLD can mess things up. So, take your time and practice.

Effective tanking means to take hits and not let other people take the hits and not to stay at full agro ALL THE TIME. This needs some getting used to. In simple words: If the target is hitting you, even if the DPS is quickly climbing the agro table, it still means you're doing effective tanking.

One of the secrets of PLD tanking is Shield Bash. Shield Bash is the only stun other than Holy that can stun a target for a solid 12 seconds (if you spam it correctly). That's 12 seconds of the target doing NOTHING.

In under 12 seconds, hopefully you don't need that agro anymore and the mob will be dead. Dead targets can't have agro. Because it's dead.

Once you get your Shield Oath, it'll be better and agro generation will be doubled. At least, until you hit lvl 51.

My tip on early PLD Sword Oath tanking is this:

Don't be afraid to mark. Most DPS will respect the Mark, with a capital M. This greatly simplifies things as you can focus only one target.
If your DPS is attacking two things at a time, flash is the key until the target is dying. After that? Refer the rules above.
DPS is AOEing things down? Spam flash until out of mana then proceed to Riot Blade. (But mobs will probably be dead before you pull off a Riot Blade. Hopefully.)

Your weapon needs to be at the highest level. It's not that it would change the rules above, but it will greatly increase your enmity generation and DPS, allowing you to hit that Golden Rule of (DPS enmity at less than 50% and has less than 25%~ HP) allowing you to switch target.

Good luck and may the light be with you.

[Niwashi]

Even if the damage dealers are focusing on a single target, your healer will get aggro on everything whenever he heals you, so you need to either Flash or target cycle often enough to keep the attention of all the other mobs. If it really comes down to it, it's better to lose that targeted mob to the over-geared ninja than to lose the others to your healer. The DoW damage dealers are sturdy enough to take a hit or two from any except a few of the final boss mobs. (This from the point of view of someone who hasn't tanked much, only to level 26, but has played Ninja to 50 and has both of the original healing jobs nearing that. I know which of those I'd rather be on for dealing with unwanted aggro.)

The level sync in this game does seem somewhat over-generous in the stats level-synced players and gear retain, so this is a somewhat common problem with on-level tanks. It's hard to compete for aggro with people who significantly out-gear you. To have any chance of keeping up, you'll need to make sure you have the best gear you can get for your level, particularly when it comes to your weapon. (The strength buffs on everything else help as well, but your weapon's damage stat is the biggest factor.)

[Shalan]

Thanks for the advice all.
Had Haukke Manor again and it went perfectly smoothly, and I haven't had too much trouble in other dungeons since. While level-syncing a higher level is still difficult it's more manageable now.

[Eye_Gore]

Having realize that, now you have to get used to OP people ripping agro off of you. It will happen, even if in high levels.

Not so sure about this comment. Very rare that people rip aggro off me, even if they are higher geared than me. Just have to know what to do. Rotation through the mob is key. Don't worry about focusing on one enemy. Watch the aggro bars if none of the are over half, go to the next monster and hit it, and so forth. That way if some does pull aggro from you its just a hit away from getting it back.
Being low level it will be more difficult, but the higher level stuff when you're geared is a cinch.

[elemental10]

Not so sure about this comment. Very rare that people rip aggro off me, even if they are higher geared than me. Just have to know what to do. Rotation through the mob is key. Don't worry about focusing on one enemy. Watch the aggro bars if none of the are over half, go to the next monster and hit it, and so forth. That way if some does pull aggro from you its just a hit away from getting it back.
Being low level it will be more difficult, but the higher level stuff when you're geared is a cinch.

Yes but you have to take the rest of my post in content as well.

The technique can be taught but I've seen synced PLD can't even hold hate in Brayflox with an unsynced MCH. It needs some time and experienced PLD can hold agro very well in any content regardless of gears. You are one of them then, congratulations. We need more PLD, I'm seeing less of them.