1 Month in impressions/criticisms...

[kazeandi]

Maybe, if I didn't have the Japanese audio activated, I wouldn't bother so much. But it's too late now. I like the characters for what they are in the original. Switching to the unpersonal English now is like replacing your soup with water.

[Noxifer]

"koori no miko" would be a ”shrine maiden of ice"

Yes, but not only would that be a mouthful to name someone (especially when you have to keep voiced cutscenes in mind as well), like others have said the 'average' western person doesn't automatically get what that means. And sure, priestess would have been a better term, if not correctly translated, but the point was that there's a lot more (or at least a lot different) subtext to miko than to priestess.

And I'll admit that in retrospect, it's relatively clear what Iceheart is intended to imply, but the first impression? "Is she called that because she's a cold-hearted b****? Or are they trying to allude to the snow queen fairy tale, in which case, is it because she's been brainwashed into a cold-hearted b****?" *shrugs*

I can read one line and know "that's tataru, only tataru speaks like that". In the English version? Nope. Tataru, Minfilia, Haurchefant, all the same. No soul, no personality. And worst of all, all those subtle nuances are gone that help transport the bonds they share.

I know D: It's made so very obvious in the voiced cutscenes how differently they all speak, but in the text boxes? No, not really ;_;

Also, for any one who is saying there is no originally intended dialog, yes there is, the primary source for the game is written in Japanese. That is the originally intended dialog, that is where the story is framed that is where the original dialog is written. If that was not the case then why do all the language versions (except English) stick faithfully to the original Japanese dialog?

Well, since some(?) of the localization team are in the lore group, and thus are responsible for making up certain parts of the lore -- as far as I've understood things -- I can buy that some bits have been either written first-hand in English or fleshed-out from the basic 'this is what should come out in this dialogue' skeleton, before being sent to the other language teams (including the JP one) for localization. But as far as I know, the majority of the story and dialogue is originally written in Japanese.

Maybe, if I didn't have the Japanese audio activated, I wouldn't bother so much. But it's too late now. I like the characters for what they are in the original. Switching to the unpersonal English now is like replacing your soup with water.

I know O.o
I've actually gone through some of the voiced cutscenes (either via the inn or in those cutscenes that end with a "complete quest?" window, where you get reset to before cutscene if you click no) in all languages. I understand barely a handful of words in French or German, but I wanted to hear the voices and the emotions (or lack thereof). It was interesting, but I quickly switched back to Japanese xD

[Kosmos992k]

Well, since some(?) of the localization team are in the lore group, and thus are responsible for making up certain parts of the lore -- as far as I've understood things -- I can buy that some bits have been either written first-hand in English or fleshed-out from the basic 'this is what should come out in this dialogue' skeleton, before being sent to the other language teams (including the JP one) for localization. But as far as I know, the majority of the story and dialogue is originally written in Japanese.

Sort of. I think the process is a little different. It's like there is the original concept and exposition for the scene, the lore team for English localization has some input at that stage.

The final version is then created by the main team in Japanese, that becomes the 'master' version (or the intended dialog).

The English Localization team then takes that and translates it to English which in effect becomes the reference version for all languages other than Japanese.

All versions except the English one are translated from this reference version, and are therefore more directly related to the original Japanese.

The English localization team (English is the 2nd biggest market for the game) then works from the reference version to produce a fully localized English version - which is what we see in the game.

Because the full English localization happens after all the other language versions have been created, any changes made to it by localization are NOT reflected in those other languages. Midgardsormr being a perfect example of this.

[Tenkuu]

Yes, but not only would that be a mouthful to name someone (especially when you have to keep voiced cutscenes in mind as well), like others have said the 'average' western person doesn't automatically get what that means. And sure, priestess would have been a better term, if not correctly translated, but the point was that there's a lot more (or at least a lot different) subtext to miko than to priestess.

That's really not true though. Priestess is a perfectly acceptable english translation for "miko", going by the example I gave, especially since Ysayle is far from being a miko in the traditional sense of the term.

And I'll admit that in retrospect, it's relatively clear what Iceheart is intended to imply, but the first impression? "Is she called that because she's a cold-hearted b****? Or are they trying to allude to the snow queen fairy tale, in which case, is it because she's been brainwashed into a cold-hearted b****?" *shrugs*

I've never felt that Iceheart was an appropriate name for her, it implies things completely contrary to her character, and frankly has no positive connotations.

I know D: It's made so very obvious in the voiced cutscenes how differently they all speak, but in the text boxes? No, not really ;_;

If you use the japanese client, each character's own way of talking is probably distinguishable enough that you can tell it's uniquely them before they finish talking.

[_Pigzig]

the story is good imo

[kazeandi]

the story is good imo

Well, it's better than most (if not all) MMOs out there. Not novel material, but it doesn't have to - it does its job.

Miko: Yes, she's not really a miko, she's also not a priestess in the traditional sense. It's acceptable as translation though because of the subtext, the nuance it translates. "Iceheart" makes me think of a cold hearted bitch, which is absolutely not true at all for her. "but people call her that" - no, they call her 氷の巫女, and if you look at the whole Ishgard scenario in context, it's clear why they do. Well, in the Japanese, but even in the English version her intentions are somewhat clear.

[Morningstar1337]

"Iceheart" makes me think of a cold hearted bitch, which is absolutely not true at all for her. "but people call her that" - no, they call her 氷の巫女, and if you look at the whole Ishgard scenario in context, it's clear why they do.

I think the Iceheart thing actuality makes sense, She is the leader of a group of sympathizers of enemies of the Holy See, so they have little reason to humanizing her. DEhumanizing Ysaile on the other hand offers many benefits. After all, whose side will people take, that of the religion they followed for a thousand years without knowing the real reason it came out, or a cold blooded heretic who openly aides the enemy?

Names and monikers can be an effective propaganda tool. Calling her a priestess in a theocracy would make look seem more sympathetic than effectively calling her a cold heartless bitch. The intentions of the people using the name (Thordian and his Knights) which are also clear, are also a factor.

[kazeandi]

This would be true if it'd be part of the actual story, but it's not. The original Arch Bishop isn't even that kind of guy, he's not even a bad guy. He never used tools such as dehumanizing propaganda, that wouldn't have fit his character. For him, Iceheart was just a mere annoyance, nothing to really worry about.

[Tenkuu]

This would be true if it'd be part of the actual story, but it's not. The original Arch Bishop isn't even that kind of guy, he's not even a bad guy. He never used tools such as dehumanizing propaganda, that wouldn't have fit his character. For him, Iceheart was just a mere annoyance, nothing to really worry about.

Have we played through the same ending? I'm pretty sure his entire MO is dehumanizing propaganda, or more specifically, the perpetuation of it.

It's been a while since I played through the start of this, but I want to remember that the first mention of her name (to the WoL) was something along the lines of "they [the heretics] call her Iceheart".... But like I said, it's a long time since then, so I might be wrong. Will get there soon(ish) with one of my alts so I can refresh my memory ^^

Here, I used to have a better video of this, but somehow the link is no longer in my YouTube history, it was of a Highlander Hyur. I had found the link on a Reddit post, but no longer finding that either. Actually, if anyone here finds it, let me know.

Well, yes. But like I mentioned in a previous post I have Japanese audio but English client, since I'm far from fluent enough in Japanese (especially written Japanese) to be able to understand anything ^^; Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the post you quoted.

No, you weren't unclear, I was just saying that in japanese, you *can* sometimes tell who's talking before seeing their faces, if it's a known character, going by the text alone (ie unvoiced cutscenes).

[Calypsx]

I think the Iceheart thing actuality makes sense, She is the leader of a group of sympathizers of enemies of the Holy See, so they have little reaon to humanizing her. DEhumanizing Ysaile on the other hand offeres many benefits. After all, whose side will people take, that of the religion they followed for a thousand years without knowing the real reason it came out, or a cold blooded heretic who openly aides the enemy.

Names and monikers can be an effective propaganda tool. Calling her a priestess in a therocracy would make look seem more sympathetic than effectively calling her a cold heartless bitch. The intentions of the people using the name (Thordian and his Knights) which are also clear, are also a factor.

Agreed, Ysail having the title of Iceheart makes for more sense for me given the context of the war going on. I prefer it.