PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Nektulos-Tuor]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Going back through the thread is becoming increasingly hilarious.

Wow, a list of guilds / people I can report for cheating. =P

I'm kidding, but you may want to write off names.

Honestly, they should trade the strength down debuff from DRK and give the Int debuff to Paladin.

[Adrasteia]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...sLaoo/pubhtml#

Going back through the thread is becoming increasingly hilarious.

I stumbled upon a nice post a few pages back:

Except if they're played as aggressively as a WAR or DRK and have slashing rebuff, either from WAR or a NIN, then they're still competitive to the point that the damage difference is negligible unless you're pushing for clears while under geared.

It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

[SpookyGhost]

It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

Just want to point out 2 things:

1. WAR's encounter time is 5:00, PLD's is 6:46
2. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1572848/

[AIex]

It may be my old-fashioned ways, but a difference of 346 DPS between the top WAR and the top PLD in A1S does not actually seem to be "negligible."

Oh hey, that PLD is me!! I'm sure I can push over 800, but I don't get a slashing down because of our A1S tactic since we split our DPS 2-2 and our NIN stays on the WAR's to Aeolian spam. I spent a total of 2 GCD's on one stance dance the entire fight because I saw a messy situation where the healers needed help right before the tank buster, but even then it shouldn't have been a major dps loss. Riot > Sentinel > Goring + tankbuster starts cast > ShO > SwO > back to the good fight

That aside, me pushing a theory-800 still pales in comparison to top WARs and DRKs. I understand doing a lot less than a WAR, but I honestly don't feel like it's fair being 150 dps behind a DRK because of a shield that doesn't have amazing returns in savage + a 7 minute cd feasible maybe once (yeah yeah, sometimes twice) a fight + lacking the ability to reliably lower raid magic damage (don't give me that "divine veil" arguement, Cascade in A3S is every 70 or so seconds and dv is on a 150 cd vs Delirium + a good chance to proc reprisal with a well timed dark dance).

I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

Also, I don't feel like im "creme de la creme", but I only spent 1 GCD (that didn't even break my combo luckily, see above) that in shield oath. Potted twice and put my FoF's behind goring. Outside of having getting the NIN to dancing edge for me (so that he gets a dps loss instead lol?), I don't see how I can push that number much further (aside from gear obviously). I definitely agree with adjustments to TP / Shield Swipe / Aggro, but potency+offensive adjustments do need to be made too. Getting an extra 50 potency auto attack that doesn't even affect my weaponskills does not even slightly compare to WAR's x1.05 deliverance + x1.20 maim and DRK's x1.15 darkside modifiers that apply to all their weapon skills AND auto attacks.

[Sleigh]

Also, I don't feel like im "creme de la creme", but I only spent 1 GCD (that didn't even break my combo luckily, see above) that in shield oath. Potted twice and put my FoF's behind goring. Outside of having getting the NIN to dancing edge for me (so that he gets a dps loss instead lol?), I don't see how I can push that number much further (aside from gear obviously). I definitely agree with adjustments to TP / Shield Swipe / Aggro, but potency+offensive adjustments do need to be made too. Getting an extra 50 potency auto attack that doesn't even affect my weaponskills does not even slightly compare to WAR's x1.05 deliverance + x1.20 maim and DRK's x1.15 darkside modifiers that apply to all their weapon skills AND auto attacks.

Well, you're admitting you could have a better parse if the NIN was on you, regardless of if you feel it's the right decision or not; guarantee any DRK or WAR at the top had a NIN on them. Speaking of that, you should probably have the NIN on your Oppressor IMO, the NIN loses a little DPS but if you're in Sword Oath, your active 80+ DPS gain while he's applying DE will be more than he loses by going away from WAR. That applies to DRK too.

A1's a goofy fight. It's not even just about how many jumps you get, it's about how long you spend in a phase after jumps too. From a 6:50ish clear I'm guessing you had 2 jumps and a bit of time into your phase. Anyone getting 1 jump and getting a bit into their phase is going to destroy you no matter what if they play on point, because they don't have to stand around for literally 30s doing nothing. You'll push that number much further when you skip jump 2. You'll notice some of the top numbers are distinctly 5m or less, which is why they're so inflated compared to most of the parses on there.

At the end of the day, DRK is just plain better A1S, it's designed at its core to be a WAR WAR or WAR DRK. Arguably A3S, definitely A4S. More DPS from PLD won't fix that, but it will make future content rougher to balance if PLD's scoring DRK level damage in Shield Oath.

[AIex]

snip

I can agree you make some good points here but we still have a major problem: What can be done to justify bringing PLD to a progression team? We all know for a fact PLD's are not better offensively than the other two, but on top of that, anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that PLD's are also not defensively better than the other two in savage. I could list the reasons why, but it would be a long post that has probably been done before.

[Brian_]

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

[SpookyGhost]

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

My point is that the numbers are skewed due to the length of the fights. Tanks aren't the only ones hitting the boss, fyi. :V There are a lot of factors to take into account that can't be taken into account with a leader board like that. It's pointless to try and compare numbers that way.

[Sleigh]

Your encounters tend to be shorter when you deal more DPS and kill stuff faster. Hence the importance of DPS.

I have beaten every SMN on that leaderboard by far in A1S, with a shitty comp, and I can tell you having a high score doesn't mean anything about class balance. Why? Because my gear and my kill time are superior to anyone else trying right now. The results are pretty skewed right now, everyone's got a different scenario going. My point by that is, I wouldn't use that as proof of anything since it's a situation with a lot of variables, like gear, kill time, comp, who actually uses the class (I coulda gone BLM and have never beaten these people in the SMN category because I didn't play it).

The biggest flaw in pointing at that leaderboard and saying oh my, PLD DPS sure can't happen in a real fight in any way, is the top groups are running DRK anyway. DRK's in a better spot, this is undeniable, so your speed pushers, your groups trying for good DPS, are going to use DRK since it's better for the encounters in question. I am sure some of those 900+ WARs and DRKs could, if they so chose to gear and use PLD, get very close using the same tactics, but they're not going to for a while. It's a bit like looking at healer DPS and saying, the top AST is doing way less than SCH/WHM, when 99% of groups run SCH/WHM to begin with, though of course not that extreme.

You'll also get some people who do well who DGAF to post their numbers. I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

[Sapphidia]

You'll also get some people who do well who DGAF to post their numbers. I guarantee that is not the creme de la creme of PLD DPS.

The thing about paladin dps though is it's incredibly -easy-. DRK and WAR actually have quite a bit of thought in their dps rotation - managing when to fell cleave within berserk windows, the mana/wrath management, so many different options for Dark Arts, multiple DPS cooldowns on Warrior....

... on Paladin you literally sit in Sword Oath as much as possible and just go Goring/Royal/Royal, keeping FoF, Circle and Spirits on cooldown, with a teeny bit of optimisation on the first FoF to ensure you get two Gorings and two Circle out of it. That's it.

Whilst I don't disagree with your point, Paladin DPS is very very easy to optimise in terms of the mechanical play of the Paladin. The tricky part is in actually having windows in which you can DO that rotation. The fact that we've seen no paladins approaching the values of WAR and DRK just shows more that it's very difficult to find the windows in a fight that allow that, more than saying the paladins on the leaderboard need to git gud.

It's why most Paladins arent actually crying for a Potency Increase, we're just wanting threat/quality of life boosts that let us sit in our DPS stance and actually do our dps rotation without losing huge amounts of DPS every time we need to worry about hate.