PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Reynhart]

"Assuming you only needed one tank ?" Really ? Well let's assume you need zero tank, then a drg does more DPS than the war, so we should use Drg as tanks.

With a little subtle difference...with zero tank, you'll wipe and thus, the DRG will do crap DPS
"Solo tanking" is a real possibility depending on the content and the gear.

BUT, if you actually manage to survive with zero tank (Thanks to exceptionnal healers and very good DPS players), then yes, taking a tank IS useless.
That's exactly what happened to FFXI with Abyssea.

[Wizhard]

Pld 740 dps while MT, War 800 dps as OT. So it proves my point even more -- there is a 60 difference here despite the Pld main tanking at the start and doing more MT duty ont he last phase.

Also known as: the difference between a good pld and a good war in term of dps is marginal. Need more proof ? Have found any video of a war doing more than this while being MT on A3S ? Or a Drk for that matter ? Oh btw more than half the videos i find have Pld and not Drk in there. I do wonder why, man, Pld is so bad, really /s

Edit: Saw your last post. Once again, i beg you. Find me the videos of those war or Drk that MT this while outputting so much more dps. All i see is pulling stuff out of your *** to try to justify your point of view.

That pld spent alot of time tanking in sword oath, Notice how healer dps is not as high as the other parses.Nobody is actually arguing that sword oath dps is ok, what people are not ok with is enmity in sword oath and damage in shield oath.
Also, for funzies, try and find a A3S clear without a warrior.

[Giantbane]

That pld spent alot of time tanking in sword oath, Notice how healer dps is not as high as the other parses.Nobody is actually arguing that sword oath dps is ok, what people are not ok with is enmity in sword oath and damage in shield oath.
Also, for funzies, try and find a A3S clear without a warrior.

I'm pretty sure the enmity in sword oath is actually very comparable to a DRK without grit. It seems like the biggest difference is that the big agro series that PLD has (FoF + 4x Halone in Shield Oath) takes longer and does less damage/time than a DRK just leading off with Grit + 2x Power Slash and all the oGCD attacks or a WAR with UBIR + 3x BB.

This allows the DRK/WAR to build up threat very quickly (doing good dmg the entire time) and then swap to DPS (both w/o loss of a GCD) and they should be pretty set for the rest of the fight (or at least a good long while). PLD takes a good 30 seconds to establish solid hate and their DPS is crap the entire time.

[Reynhart]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

Because, believe it or not, in the Party Finder, most parties won't be about Alex Savage. And if, for thoses parties, PLD is the "worst" tank because they want to clear as fast as possible so they focus on more and more DPS, they PLD will be shafted.

In fact, static parties, that is to say parties for which endgame content has been designed, are not where the discrimination is the hardest, since you'll probably accept any job from a person you know and play regularly, as long as he's a good player with this job. As you said, any tank combination can clear Savage, but the misinformed sheep won't take any risk and exclude players for any stupid reason they can.

Those same sheep that REQUIRED a relic weapon to invite you for Titan Hard Mode back in 2.0...

[Casper]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

Because, believe it or not, in the Party Finder, most parties won't be about Alex Savage. And if, for thoses parties, PLD is the "worst" tank because they want to clear as fast as possible so they focus on more and more DPS, they PLD will be shafted.

In fact, static parties, that is to say parties for which endgame content has been designed, are not where the discrimination is the hardest, since you'll probably accept any job from a person you know and play regularly, as long as he's a good player with this job. As you said, any tank combination can clear Savage, but the misinformed sheep won't take any risk and exclude players for any stupid reason they can.

Those same sheep that REQUIRED a relic weapon to invite you for Titan Hard Mode back in 2.0...

The issue you are angry about then is not class balance but hive mind thinking and narrow-mindedness in the general population. Those are much harder problems to solve and i am afraid it is mostly out of SE's hand.

We are however here discussing class balance. You will never reach a point where all classes are considered as equal to the "hive mind" -- there will always be FOTM classes, so really, trying to balance because of this makes no sense. A month ago it was Drk that were supposed to be so underpowered, and lo and behold, turns out now they are "better than Pld" -- despite exactly zero changes made to any of the two jobs. We are in the exact same situation. And you know what ? By arguing so much about Pld being so weak, you are exactly part of the problem. You reinforce the "hive mind" idea that Pld sucks and can't be used for anything. You are making it harder for Pld around the world to get into groups, no matter class balance.

But class balance, as said, doesn't revolve about what "everyone" thinks. It should be based on optimal play and on the things where it matters. And as has been discussed at length now -- in that regards, Pld are just fine. They have great strengths and advantages, and they pay for it on some other levels, including a very modest reduction in DPS. They COULD use some quality of life changes, especially on shield swipe and clemency, which are both not in a great place at the moment.

But overall dps is NOT one of the issue of Pld at the moment. Period.

[Fue]

Someone was asking for the 5min parse.
ilvl193 with i200 weapon.
Link

[Reynhart]

By arguing so much about Pld being so weak, you are exactly part of the problem.[...]But overall dps is NOT one of the issue of Pld at the moment. Period.

Ok, so maybe you didn't properly read my posts.

PLD DPS is indeed not the problem...well single target, at least. A little help on AoE would be good, so that's why I suggested War Drum, which would also help for AoE threat. I also suggested Sword Oath to increase potency, not to increase DPS, but only so that the added potency will increase enmity generation more. Because it would make PLD more interesting to play if he can tank more in Sword Oath without risking losing enmity.

What I said, although, is that each tank should have something else that mitigation, because mitigation is the bare minimum. So, let WAR be the "DPS" tank, and give PLD (And DRK) something else to make them incomparable. Keep in mind that they'll probably give us more tanks in the future, so they'll have to find something else than mitigation and DPS to separate them.

As for DRK being better than PLD, it's only because HW is mostly designed for DRK with an emphasis on magical damage.

As for the "Hive Mind", the problem is that their main focus is "moar DPS"...and it's technically the game's fault for putting more and more DPS check.

[HoodRat]

Take a look at all the threads talking about balancing tanks, and you'll plenty of people keep telling you "not only hardcore raiders care about balance".

So every single thread complaining about balance issues is 100% correct? I guess that means you're in league with that guy in the dps forums who made a thread about blm being broken because they lose dps when they have to dodge aoes.

[SirPhoebos]

Whatever buff/revamp PLD gets should focus on the shield. Right now they're the only Job that uses an off-hand item (not counting leveling Conjurers and Thaumaturges), and I feel like not enough is done with it to justify why it can't just be bundled with the sword (granted it makes weapon upgrades cheaper {`<`} ). Maybe you can put all shield abilities on a separate cooldown (think Shaman shocks from WoW), and give it it's own combos.

[Sir_Hermes]

Why can't they just remove the sword oath/shield oath GCD? Would that not fix the dps issue?