PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

[Kaith]

Uh, no. So far Alex Savage is being designed with hard DPS checks as the primary method of gating, a change from Bahamut's Coils where mechanics often were. Tanks need to be out there DPSing hard now to meet these checks. The content is intended to be cleared with tanks DPSing and their DPS in expac has been boosted relative to in ARR specifically for this.

If "support DPS" aren't able to out-DPS tanks in progression content then they seriously need to git gud. I know a BRD who outputs 1.2k on Faust, find me a tank who can output 1.2k on Faust and we'll talk. Otherwise your argument is completely invalid.

This. I would say the only exception is A2S where WARs may viably out DPS some actual DPS.

Faust is a terrible indicator of single target DPS because every DPS class is going to use an AOE ability at some point in their rotation. They could even be doing it on purpose to pad their numbers. A more correct metric would be the first 90 seconds of the Savage Oppressor fight or an actual Target Dummy.

People should be filtering out the adds on their Faust parse. Anyone citing a parse that includes the damage on adds is going to instantly lose credibility. I know that just targetting Faust my BRD does about 1125-1175 DPS so his numbers are accurate (My BRD will be slighly behind most as all my NQ Alex drops went to my PLD)

Ill just leave this here.

http://puu.sh/jl9mt/19e9a0ea40.png
ilvl186 with Ravana Axe. No party buff, food or pots

http://puu.sh/jlet3/6eff2967e7.png
Same thing with Pld obviously missing the slashing debuff and i had to use enliven to even get a decent time.

What gear on the PLD? Main reason I ask is because I just went and wailed on a dummy on my PLD using i200 weapon, 4 melded accs + 1 STR acc and I came out at 836 DPS at the point I ran TP dead (like 2 mins 40). That was with some food still on too.

[KircheAhaltZerbst]

I feel as if I just got dumber reading this post. No one has any real control in their tests.. we have no idea what accessories are being used.. no parse data with crit rates.. and the last example was "look at the flying text" what the hell lol. PLDs strongest GCD is a DOT for Christs sake.

[Dante_V]

I feel as if I just got dumber reading this post. No one has any real control in their tests.. we have no idea what accessories are being used.. no parse data with crit rates.. and the last example was "look at the flying text" what the hell lol. PLDs strongest GCD is a DOT for Christs sake.

100% agree. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but last night I did about 750 on our faust clear for the week as DRK MT at ilvl 180/Ravana weapon/no eso gear/4 vit accessories (1 str 190 ring/2 170 vit and 2 180 vit)/no slash debuff. This was with some errors however via not keeping up dots, not pushing out more soul eaters, not using DP on cool down a couple times but it was the first night I've tried MTing it. I also still have 3 170 pieces to upgrade (head and two accessories) I am unsure what the crit rate was but we didn't have a dragoon or NIN in the party at the time. It was BLM/BLM/SMN/MNK.

[SirTaint]

The issue isn't OT damage, its MT damage.

Darkside is 15% damage boost, DA boost it further.

FoF is a 10% damage boost. Take away SwO potency and you see the huge discrepancy . Your math SUMs it all up nicely.

[Disc]

Take away SwO potency and you see the huge discrepancy . Your math SUMs it all up nicely.

This is where the difference in DPS is most prominent. This is also why PLD should not have their DPS buffed. The only thing keeping PLD from taking full advantage of Sword Oath is the gear reset. As PLD numbers increase their enmity generation will see a multiplicative benefit. A month or two from now you'll be good to go Sword Oath without wasting DPS on the Halone struggle. If they're buffed in advance there will be absolutely no place for DRK who will not compete on any front.

[SirTaint]

This is where the difference in DPS is most prominent. This is also why PLD should not have their DPS buffed. The only thing keeping PLD from taking full advantage of Sword Oath is the gear reset. As PLD numbers increase their enmity generation will see a multiplicative benefit. A month or two from now you'll be good to go Sword Oath without wasting DPS on the Halone struggle. If they're buffed in advance there will be absolutely no place for DRK who will not compete on any front.

No, that's not how it work at all. Every job scales with ilvl and gear. PLD will struggle with hate in SwO even at i210 because the OT and DPS will be i210 as well.

SE uses a potency system to keep everything on the same scale. PLD will always be the same % behind WAR and DRK the numbers will just be bigger.

[Giantbane]

No, that's not how it work at all. Every job scales with ilvl and gear. PLD will struggle with hate in SwO even at i210 because the OT and DPS will be i210 as well.

SE uses a potency system to keep everything on the same scale. PLD will always be the same % behind WAR and DRK the numbers will just be bigger.

Are we talking DPS in SwO or threat in SwO? I'd think threat in SwO should be closer to DRK out of grit, as Savage Blade and CoS have threat mods.

[Galgarion]

The issue isn't OT damage, its MT damage.

Darkside is 15% damage boost, DA boost it further.

FoF is a 10% damage boost. Take away SwO potency and you see the huge discrepancy . Your math SUMs it all up nicely.

Yeah, but the fellow who uses dark arts for all of his combos is the fellow who goes OOM like a boss on the boss.

It is a boss loss.

[rawker]

The issue isn't OT damage, its MT damage.

Darkside is 15% damage boost, DA boost it further.

FoF is a 10% damage boost. Take away SwO potency and you see the huge discrepancy . Your math SUMs it all up nicely.

Incorrect. When in shield oath, activating FoF is a net gain of 4%. Sword Oath, 30%.

[Disc]

No, that's not how it work at all. Every job scales with ilvl and gear. PLD will struggle with hate in SwO even at i210 because the OT and DPS will be i210 as well.

SE uses a potency system to keep everything on the same scale. PLD will always be the same % behind WAR and DRK the numbers will just be bigger.

A 5% increase to damage does not translate to a flat 5% increase to enmity like it does for DPS. In shield Oath the enmity would double for 10%. SH+Savage 25%. SH+Halone up 35%. I've explained this several times over. Enmity modifiers offer a multiplicative effect DPS will never see. I have explained this several times in this thread. It does not matter where the other tanks are on this scale, you're not struggling to hold hate off of them.

So what you're saying is that if you use Grit and Darkside together, then Grit directly reduces your damage by 23% of the DPS you would do if you didn't use darkside at all. Which is a silly way to look at it.

Grit just costs you 20% of the damage you were doing when you turn it on.

No. If base is 100% DPS then Darkside is 115% DPS. 20% of 115% is 23%. Grit is a 23% DPS loss, if you dropped Darkside too you would see a 35% DPS loss. Shield Oath is a rougher calculation. 20% reduced from base sure, but loss of +50 potency on autos ups that by about another 12~15%(estimate) for a total of about 35% DPS loss. You're very eager to ignore the multiplicative effects in this game. Stop that.