I miss the sense of adventure and danger in MMOs.

[Claire_Pendragon]

I never got lost before, but the only things that came close to causing it, were;
(1) Lack of view distance
(2) Repeating simple terrain layouts (such as FFXI)
(3) Teleportation that causes the camera to change which direction you were facing. (even more so if its different every time)

As for a sense of "exploration" things that actually make me feel that are;
(1) No maps, so you dont actually see the edges, and always "assume" there's more. (I never bothered getting map[s in FFXI, just to help the immersion the areas had more to them. Once I saw a map, it no longer felt vast and open.)
(2) Lower number of aggressive enemy populations, except certain key points. (encountering an enemy every 5 feet is just annoying, and never lets u just stop and enjoy the scenery.)
(3) Having something to actually find that is either a rare find (NM or chest) or simply out of the ordinary (NPC or beautiful vistas)
(4) and lastly, the environment is large, with enough intractable terrain, to make it feel like a playground, and not just a means to hold something inside itself. (This being the most hard to do, yet sadly, the most important.)

[Velhart]

Exploration in FFXI? How many of you went to Ifrit's Cauldron for just sightseeing? I won't take sides, but if you are holding some higher standard to FFXI's exploration then you do not have much to work off of. FFXI had it's own share of issues that gated people and influenced them to not do it. Sense of danger is fine, but FFXI was so miserable to get through certain places that you never left Jeuno/Aht Urghan Whitegate unless you had a reason to. Not to mention traversing was such a pain that people were willing to spend gil on WHM's to teleport them to areas.

Even in FFXIV 1.xx, people rather stay in town than take time to run to a certain area because they ran out of anima. People take ground/flying mounts for granted. I guarantee you people in FFXI in it's prime would of killed to get the type of accessibility that FFXIV has today. I sure as hell wish I had better accessibility when I played FFXI from 2003-2010. Its another case of rose-tinted glasses. Its fun to explore a first time, but after a while it only becomes tedious.

[Stanelis]

Exploration in FFXI? How many of you went to Ifrit's Cauldron for just sightseeing?

I actually did X)

But exploration was tedious in FFXI due to the XP penalty in case of death and the fact that you could easily be gibbed while exploring. Aside of that, FFXI level design was cool. The sens of danger is one thing, and the sens of adventure is one other.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Adventure and Danger is dead in MMOs. MMOs are now solo Themepark Moneymaking games, sorry.

The reason for this is simple: Everquest was designed to NOT be a game, but a Virtual World. It was not made to coddle you and hold your hand.

Every encounter in the game was made to be beaten fairly, every class in the game is balanced. Every encounter has meaning and a story.

Everquest however, made encounters that were NOT balanced, classes that had advantages over other classes and designed dungeons and bosses that were seemingly impossible for players to beat. Made gear that was powerful and meant to be abused.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Jesus people. You pull the I don't have time for that card, I have family, work, stuff all the damn time. Games, MMOs, they have always been a TIME commitment. Do you remember yourself when you didn't have all these responsibilities and would spend hours beating that optional boss in the game? That's because the game required hours of gameplay! You complain you don't have the time to commit to a game, then why the flying chocobo are you playing? You want everything accommodated to you, why not play a game specifically made for your type of market? There is PLENTY of them. The market is saturated with all those crappy games. Just like you tell people to go play other games why don't you take your own advice then?


MMOs are not like in the past because players got used to the eased gameplay, there is no one to blame but devs who started doing so and players who started getting spoiled. That's what happens when people get spoiled, they will whine about being too hard or tedious to do because they are used to the nowdays market that started *devolving* thanks to them. It's like if you were forced to stop using your smart phone and had to revert to a normal cellphone. People would complain about not being able to type on the screen, not being able to use whatsapp, not being able to play 3D games. People would complain about the lack of color variety, the resolution, etc. Whatever it is, people would complain about something, because they got used to the ease. Did people complain before when phones didn't have these things? No, because they didn't know it was possible. They worked with what they had, The market itself has made people believe that they NEED all these new shinies.

Except that's a tool. Tools are made for convenience, to make life easier (and lazier) for people. A game is not a damn tool, it's entertainment. You don't like exploring a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a genre that's been all about developing your character AND exploring the world your character lives in. Then why are you playing this?! Why not go watch a movie instead, you just have to sit down without having to move a finger?

Well great, games have reached a mainstream audience and they are probably doing much more money than before. Good for the Devs, bad for actual gaming. Then people complain that all MMOs are the same now and there's nothing creative or innovative in the market, well to whom do they owe that to? MMOs are in decline and they don't have a very brilliant future(and no, Oculus Rift isn't exactly a brilliant future, specially when people don't want to have to move even ingame) exactly because of this.

You find everything tedious, you just want to sit down there and not have to move your fingers much. Why can't a MMORPG have exploration?! Some people actually like that! Just like you like not having to walk anywhere, there's people that like that and it has nothing to do with "staying in the past" the hell people? Is it the age? You've grown old physically and therefore you have to grow old mentally, too? Games are supposed to be fun! The games you played before were about the fun, exploration, danger. That's what made them fun. And don't tell me it isn't because then why would people have complained about FF13 being too linear with no open world to explore? Why is FFXV now completely the opposite and open world? Maybe because of the FF13 complaints? Would you have found games fun back then if they were easy pie? Could you imagine the same fun with a super easy Mario? Honestly, would you have? This game is so watered down already that it's bland. Do people telling others to "go play FFXI" even care about the game or the game industry at all? That's the worst possible way to grow a community.

There's people with a lot of responsibilities (yes, work, family, etc) who still make time to play and don't whine about things being tedious because god forbids you actually have to PLAY the game. If you can't manage your time that is your problem, but don't make it a game's problem.

You have your very convenient teleports so you can have your own "fun", let people who want the game to be more interesting by letting them have exploration too, as long as you don't have to do it, it doesn't affect you in ANY way. They are customers just like you.

The more I read the OF, the more I want to bang my head against the table. I love the game and want to see it become better, but this community leaves a lot to be desired. I am not a rude nor aggressive person but I've just had enough of people bringing gamers down because they'd like something implemented, telling them to take off their tinted rose glasses, telling them to go play other games, telling them to stop being in the past, belittling them for wanting something different to spice up the game. What you do is very offending, so don't feel offended if you get posts like mine. How you treat others is the way you will be treated. Have some damn respect towards others if you want respect back.

I already know what kind of excuses people are going to post towards the subjective "fun" because they sound like a broken record "fun does not equal tedious, therefore it is no funnnn (funny enough the current dungeon grinding is tedious as well but these same people don't complain about that, eh? Why not?)", so I'll just save myself a headache and leave it as it is.

[justinjarjar]

snip

Yes the game has evolved with society. No one wants the grind that turned many off of FF11 there is a reason I did not play mmo's till WoW, I wanted fun 30-2 hour fun not sit and grind to feel like I did nothing. The whole spoiled argument is a tired and true argument that is used to repress youth (which has shown that people are not dumber or more entitled just different). I simply put that in this current market old school mmo's would not sell, and probably will not come back in a major way (thank you indie developers for bringing back some old school games). What you are asking for is not a change of player base, but a change of the industry, which I wish you good luck, that is a long up hill battle. No one should be saying that some people like the old school and that it should no longer exist, just that a game set in the current market has no reason to move in that direction. I can get a lost done with one dungeon a day with he current system. That is perfect for me and many others who consume this product. The point of people saying go back to FF11 is that game is of the old era (when game developers still thought that only male teens played video games) that people want to move on from. (since so many counterarguments are FF11 had it which is a game that does not appeal to many of the FF14 gamers). You also act like even a less dedicated gamer is not a "true gamer" which is not true. They just have different time commitments. Welcome to the age where a 39 year old woman can get a positive experience with the same game as a 15 year old boy. I do not get what you mean by devolution, what are we reverting to? You have a right to care and you seem to, so figure out what you can do to help. Maybe start coming up with new ideas that the current market could use, or get a degree in computer programming and spend hours of your day making the game that you want. Welcome to business or what adults have been calling the real world for decades, not everything is right, it just needs to make money.

[Velhart]

snip

You make a game that requires a time commitment each night out of you, you lose an incredible amount of numbers. This is a game that aims at both hardcore and casual and it owes nothing to the people who like to spend 6-7 hours a night on their game.

[Heskett]

There are reasonable time sinks, and then there are dumb time sinks. Taking an unreasonable amount of time reaching your destination due to meandering/fighting enemies follows the latter. It doesn't encourage exploration, it encourages pissing and moaning.

[MageBlack]

Sounds like y'all need to contact From Software and get them to make a Souls MMO. but i'm sure even that would be "too easy" for most of you...

[Farah]

If you want it to be dangerous running around open world, just equip some lvl1 gear and run around heavensward areas for a bit. Or change to a class that is like lvl 15 or something. Challenge accepted? Stuff would be a challenge is you weren't prancing around in ilvl 180+ gear.