Small (tiny?) changes to PLD/DRK

[Naelle]

There's a lot of complaining going around right now about both Paladins and Dark Knights. I, for one, think they're both very close to perfect. These are the changes I propose:

Paladin

Shield Swipe* - I'd really like to see this skill be off the global cooldown without changing anything else about it. This would add a bit of needed DPS and increase single target enmity.

Sword Oath - Add a slight damage buff to actions; something reasonable like 5-10%

Dark Knight

Cross Class - My list for Dark Knight is very short. Change the cross-class skills from Marauder to Lancer. Blood for Blood makes up for the lack of a hard damage increase skill (FoF/Berserk), Invigorate fixes the TP issues the class suffers from, and Keen Flurry has perfect synergy with the parry concept. I know that with those changes we would lose Bloodbath (oh noes....), Foresight (oh noes again!), and Mercy Stroke. However, what the class gains in ability would also help solidify it's identity.

Well, there they are. I'll end this by saying that I've been tanking in this game since 1.0 and have a lot of experience with both Warrior and Paladin. I think it's obvious by these forums that Warrior is in a pretty good place right now, hence to omission. I know Dark Knight is still very new, but I've played pretty much nothing else since 3.0 launch. I'm hardly an expert or respected individual in the field of tank and spank in this community, but I appreciate any comments and feedback. Thanks folks, happy hunting.

*Shield Bash was the wrong skill name. I meant Shield Swipe!

[Phoenicia]

First of all, Sword Oath is the most potent DPS stance adding roughly 11~15% DPS compared to base non-DPS-stance. While it would be nice if it boosted potency of attacks which would help with aggro a bit. I do not see it happening though.

Shield Bash moving to off GCD means it loses 1 second in duration and gains a 20~ second CD so it is in line with the other stuns. It would gain a form of advantage but it loses the stun lock advantage. I think it is nice in its niche form currently.

As for DRK, Blood for Blood would make healers' lives a nightmare. The amount of bad DRK tanks out there is bad enough, adding more reason to make the bad tanks even worse is not the smart idea.

Keen Flurry would be a nice addition but it does not justify changing MRD to LNC cross class. Same with Invigorate. IMO DRK needs their own versions of those skills. Dark Dance should add more than the measly 30% parry rate. And if DRK MUST get a TP replenishment, they should have their own version.

[Naelle]

It's pretty obvious from the threads in this forum that Paladin is pretty far behind the other tanks in the DPS department, so adding a little bit to Sword Oath wouldn't break them in my opinion. I corrected the original post, Shield Bash is perfectly fine, what I meant to change was Shield Swipe.

As far as Blood for Blood goes, you're taking less additional damage using BfB than you would by switching off Grit to DPS. I'm all for DRK getting their own version of needed skills but it seems from a development point of view using the ones already in the game would be faster, cheaper, and easier. Paladin cross classes with MRD and WHM, Marauder with GLA and MNK, while Dark Knight is stuck with both tanks. Switching them to GLA and LNC seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Domira]

[QUOTE=Naelle;3195001]It's pretty obvious from the threads in this forum that Paladin is pretty far behind the other tanks in the DPS department....QUOTE]

Its intentionally designed that way, I doubt it will change.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Some one dummy parse a paladin for me! I'll believe they need a dps buff when I see them pulling super low numbers! THE PROOF IS IN THE PARSE!

[Naelle]

I'm currently leveling Paladin so I'll try to post a comparison parse in the same gear/iLvL soon. Paladin should be lower DPS than the others, that's not the main focus of my suggestions.

[Nayrr]

I was doing multiple dummy parses for both DRK and PLD in STR accessories, and about 80% of the time I was able to parse the same or more dps with PLD while also lasting ~25-30 seconds longer. Both have the same equipment and I am more experienced with DRK than I am with PLD right now.

[Naelle]

I was doing multiple dummy parses for both DRK and PLD in STR accessories, and about 80% of the time I was able to parse the same or more dps with PLD while also lasting ~25-30 seconds longer. Both have the same equipment and I am more experienced with DRK than I am with PLD right now.

That seems a bit surprising considering the forum uproar. I'd be interested to know what rotations you're using.

[Nayrr]

That seems a bit surprising considering the forum uproar. I'd be interested to know what rotations you're using.

For PLD it's pretty simple: Keeping FoF on CD, start GB combo and do it every time after 2 RA combos. SW and CoS whenever up.

FOR DRK... start Scourge and Salted Earth, spam DA SE combo while also keeping Plunge, DP, Low Blow, and C&S on CD while also always using C&S with DA, and always have BW on whenever it's up. Usually fit 2 oGCD skills in between. If low on mp, use Delirium combo until I can get sufficient MP back. Also Scourge whenever it wears off, and Salted Earth whenever available.

EDIT: The reason why I was doing multiple dummy parse runs was because of the uproar on the forums. Couldn't really believe it because I had thought DRK was supposed to be quite a bit ahead, and in pretty much all the cases, they were nearly even, with PLD being able to last longer. Maybe the parser itself is not counting something right on DRK.

[Drtoxicmedica]

I out dps the paladin main in my raid linkshell easily idk how your putting out more dps on your paladin then your dark knight. Mind you he has his 200 weapon while I only have my hive.

As for this thread I'd prefer just having a tp recovery skill of our own as opposed to taking from lancer. We keep our dps buff 100% of the time even while main tanking if you think about it we are only ever handicapped by a 5% damage reduction while in tank stance. And keep the bonus of darkside at all times while out of tank stance.