Small (tiny?) changes to PLD/DRK

[Naelle]

The problem with being the "mitigation" tank is that as soon as you out-gear a fight you're completely useless. People will always want to do more damage and clear things faster, but not every job should play the same. It's a fine line to walk to make every job relevant without being too washed out. Paladins are great for defense but they do need enough offense to not be ignored later. I'd prefer their niche be the "main" tank rather than the "mitigation" tank. The proposed shield swipe change would only increase main tank damage, leaving Warriors and Dark Knights to be the better dps/ot jobs.

[Nayrr]

I ran several more tests to make sure I wasn't going crazy and same deal. However, I was using Sword Oath and Darkside only, respectively. I'll test again with Shield Oath and Grit up. Fairly certain DRK will win out easily in that case, since Sword Oath does put out a pretty nice chunk of damage while DRK can keep Darkside up at all times.

[Seku]

New Skill - Divine Intervention level 59 - Fully heal all allies and removes status effects (uses all MP and TP) 420 second cool down

Wait what...You want to give PLD the level 2 healer's limit break? xD If we're going that far with OP moves, why not also throw in the upgraded shield bash technique the first boss in the vault uses.

Trait: Holy Shield bash - every time you use shield bash you preform the level 1 DPS limit break.

[Disc]

I'm pretty happy with where PLD & DRK are.

Both tanks do roughly the same damage against dummies out of tank stance. As DRK I do about 5% more damage out of Grit than a PLD in Sword Oath with both in the exact same tank sets with the exact same attribute placement. However, pulling that DPS is 100x easier as PLD. PLD only rely on TP, and a good portion of their damage comes from the boost to auto-attacks. As DRK I have to manage more abilities, buffs, and MP.

But there's more to it than what you can do on a dummy, or as OT which you will almost never be. While MT out of tank stance DRK will pull further ahead. The main two reasons being that A) their resources(MP) regenerate much faster while taking damage, and B) their hate generation with proper use of Dark Arts+Power Slash is much higher than anything a PLD can do. This allows them to focus solely on damage after the initial pull, and to do more of it than they could on a dummy. This goes for tank stances too. A DRK not being attacked will eventually fall behind a PLD in damage due to lack of resources. Also worth the mention that DRK takes less of a hit dropping Grit than a PLD swapping to Sword Oath, though there is still some delay because it is tied to GCD. In contrast, DRK are completely lacking in support abilities & Hallowed Ground.(I almost died in phase change to Living Dead earlier)

I've taken both tanks into Alexander Savage & prefer DRK so far, because it's not as boring and brings better DPS. I'm still hesitant to buy the i200 Great Sword next week because I'm worried I may want Hallowed or other PLD support skills in later turns. That is balance. It won't matter who does more once we're wearing full i210 because I'll just tank without stance & destroy everything on both.

[Aurum]

The only change I'd make to DRK would be to add a chance(10%, maybe 20%) to proc reprisal on a critical hit. Not only would it increase the chance of it being up when you want it, this change would also allow the OT to occasionally toss it on whatever enemy the party is fighting. It's not something that'd kill DRK to not have, but it'd be a nice little bonus to the current toolset.

[Faytte]

The only change I'd make to DRK would be to add a chance(10%, maybe 20%) to proc reprisal on a critical hit. Not only would it increase the chance of it being up when you want it, this change would also allow the OT to occasionally toss it on whatever enemy the party is fighting. It's not something that'd kill DRK to not have, but it'd be a nice little bonus to the current toolset.

So they would have a Int down debuffs and common access to a storms path when needed? That doesn't seem a bit op to you? The fact it's limited to when your tanking physical damage is the limiter and basically allows darks to deal with physical fights, just not as well as paladins or wars, while still able to keep your Int down at all times.

[Aurum]

Edit: Okay, okay, you're right lol

[Domira]

[QUOTE=Naelle;3195001]It's pretty obvious from the threads in this forum that Paladin is pretty far behind the other tanks in the DPS department....QUOTE]

Its intentionally designed that way, I doubt it will change.

[karateorangutang]

I've migrated out of PLD because I feel its lackluster. Not because of it's design ( i generally love a tank/support role) but because of the way that heavensward is delivering it's content. DPS races are back in place and in alot of circles tanks are expected to pull their weight.

This happened in XI too.. PLD was a premier endgame tank. Except you only needed one most of the time cause everything was a DPS race. In SE's MMO's they seem to migrate from survival battles to battles that favor mechanics of damage. This makes sense cause a party is 50% DPS classes and most of the games main class players play DPS. I just have a hard time imagining SE changing their ways in such a fashion that tanks take enough damage that the off tank needs to step in the ensure that survivability. However, if this was the case PLD would fit that bill PERFECTLY.

Just my opinion.