The one consistent critic on Heavensward is "too much like ARR"? srsly?

[Nordya]

3.0 feels pretty safe, while they did add a lot of content, not much of that content is different. Over the course of 2.0, they did add a lot of activities, treasure maps, Gold Saucer, Hunts, beastman dailies, and such, but Heavensward has done little to expand the list. I think Heavensward added some good base content, a nice expansive overworld, and a progression system that we're quite familiar with. We're just getting a bit antsy waiting for something to do in that world since gear progression is the only thing occupying a level 60 character's time, and that gear isn't even truly necessary for someone who's not a full time raider.

That is what I meant, so I completely agree with you. There seems to be just so much you can do if you don't raid.

[Hyrist]

Really, I'll never give developers a free pass because something is hard, design or balance. Quite frankly, it's what they're paid to do, "hard" doesn't change that.

But why I don't think it'll be done, as bored as I am of just more INT, is the vertical progression and strick gear sets. People will naturally find what's best and use it.

No... they're not paid to follow anyone person or even one group's particular design. We pay them to play their game. And the moment we're not satisfied with the product, we have the freedom to unsubscribe. It's in their interest to appease our desires in whatever means they or their superiors feel is feasible. But make no mistake - we are not their employers. Square Enix is. We don't get to dictate terms, we provide feedback. All the agency is on their end. Thinking we have more than that is a delusion of grandeur.

Our power is with our wallet. We tell them what we want, and if we don't get enough of that, we cut our money ,we stop playing the game, and we move on to greener pastures. So no, 'giving a pass' dosen't even factor into the equation on their end. To them, it's a whole package. You either like enough of that package to stay around, or you don't.

They'll listen to feedback, sure. But understand that there are hard limits and parameters they've set for the backbone of the game that likely won't change, and a lot of the breath being wasted here is either pointless or unnecessary. In fact, I almost feel as if it's baited for them. They had to understand they'd get this type of feedback with the way it was built. It just whets people's appetites for new systems so that they'll gobble up at it any time they release something moderately new.

[Saggo]

No... they're not paid to follow anyone person or even one group's particular design. We pay them to play their game. And the moment we're not satisfied with the product, we have the freedom to unsubscribe. It's in their interest to appease our desires in whatever means they or their superiors feel is feasible. But make no mistake - we are not their employers. Square Enix is. We don't get to dictate terms, we provide feedback. All the agency is on their end. Thinking we have more than that is a delusion of grandeur.

I didn't say they had to make it my way, or your way, or his way, or her way. While it may be the responsible thing to provide the service players want, they're not obligated. The player base is a loud and muddled voice, and you can't appease everyone. This we agree, but I never said they had to do it a specific way.

What I said was "hard" is not a free pass. Calling something hard, or a nightmare, or a pain, or difficult, especially when it comes to balance and design, is a disingenuous excuse to ignore or forget features or changes. This is what they do, what they chose. I design software for a living too, I know the trials. I do care if something is appropriate to make or not (I even agreed on vertical progression!), but I don't care if it's hard to make.

[Madruck]

Right now Heavensward is nothing more than 2 flavors of ice cream. We have Fractal which is Chocolate and we have Neverreap which is Vanilla...SE, why cant you be like Baskin Robbins and add at least some more flavors! If I only had 4 dungeons to run at 60 that would be way better than just 2 which give way more variety of things to do. In patch 2.5 we had 17 dungeons that which would could que us for with that not even including Praetorium or Castrum at Level 50.....now at max level again we are stuck doing the same 2 dungeons over and over again...boring. And Alex Normal Mode is no where near the same as a dungeon.....Alex is nothing more than just 2 pulls at most then one boss excluding the 2nd floor which is just one repeated difficult fate with multiple mobs. How did you go from having 17 dungeons in 2.5 and multiple options of things to run to now being stuck doing only these very few things at max level?

P.S. No the sky is not falling and no FF14 is not going away but I run stuff at max level to earn gear or items I need for my job, not just for glamour. Noone is going to run level 50 content at level 60 only to lose all thier new and added abilities so the argument to these things are mute. No I do not want to run older content Unsynced that have no challenge to them and no I do not want to run them as a level 50 again since I did the work to be level 60 with my new skills in which I paid for the expansion to do.

[justinjarjar]

They will add more as time goes on it seems like they where really focused on getting the two alexs out right away over more dungeons, at this time all we can do is them time to make more content, which they are. They also have already stated that they have more side things to do down the line, and we are getting the updates in a pretty timely manner.

[SethCypher]

Right now Heavensward is nothing more than 2 flavors of ice cream.

Vanilla ARR when it was first introduced was pretty much the same.

Also, I'm not sure why people would be expecting an entirely new and different game when they're playing an expansion.

[Madruck]

Vanilla ARR when it was first introduced was pretty much the same.

Also, I'm not sure why people would be expecting an entirely new and different game when they're playing an expansion.

I am not expecting a whole new game Seth.....I just want more variety of content than we currently have. I am not asking for 16 new dungeons, I am just wrote that to compare to what people had to do at max level compared to now. SE could have easily have made more than just 2 dungeons at max level to do for Expert Roulette. I would even be extremely content with a Hard mode Stone Vigil and Aery....at least that would be more variety than just Fractal or Neverreap over and over again for 3 months.....

[Intaki]

What I said was "hard" is not a free pass.

When you're running a business and only have so much money and manpower, it kind of is. When a manager sees that his team can either accomplish one "hard" thing or three "easy" things and one "challenging" thing, the decision-making process becomes fairly simple.

[SendohJin]

Vanilla ARR when it was first introduced was pretty much the same.

you say that like it's a good thing that 3.0 goes back to 2.0 status instead of expanding from 2.55.

Also, I'm not sure why people would be expecting an entirely new and different game when they're playing an expansion.

because nobody expects an entirely new and different game that's all in your head.

[Hyrist]

<snip> I don't care if it's hard to make.

You know as well as I do if you accept unnecessary work inflation, your turn around time suffers, you get tempted to take technical shortcuts that bite you in the butt, and it takes your attention away from other projects. I might not entirely agree with the individual choices of what they're cutting, but the concept of trimming the fat from your work table isn't an incorrect one. This is less about "Hard" and more about "Not worth it." in their eyes. If they're going to work on something hard, it may a well be something more worthwhile than inflated number crunching. That was the full of their opinion, sorry that I didn't depict it correctly.

As far as "More Variety" we have it. It's just not relevant to the Endgame Grind. Look forward to the possibility of Dusk Vigil, Sohm Al, The Aery, The Vault, The Great Gubal Library and The Aetherochemical Research Facility hard modes in the future.

Cause while endgame is low on dungeon numbers. They certainly put variety into the leveling chain.