Another comparation between AST and WHM

[Vlady]

I understand you. But first: even if AST was comparable in potency to WHM, people would choose WHM cause they like it. Its not mandatory that you choose the best job for the role you're playing, but the one you like. Second: I don't know if it is commom sense among the community but MY suggestion is just to make AST better, WHM can stll shine with their high throughoutput. I just want to be able to heal, change to cleric, cast a couple dots and go back to healing without being desperate because everybody is almost dying, like any other healer, lol.

Good point. But the logic that some people are using is since astro is not as strong as white mage people will not play it. I believe the 180 astrologians on nightly on my server alone speak different then what some people are trying to push.

[Luvbunny]

AST just need a couple more "oh shit" healing emergency, as well as its own swiftcast button, and make it so it can cross class with arcanist and conjurer. Then the job would be fine. It has similar utilities and perks as the other two healers but more complicated cards to manage. Right now, this job cannot deal with derp-o-rama party or alliance, and would need your group to not be too dumb to function

[Roxas_Andrade]

AST just need a couple more "oh shit" healing emergency, as well as its own swiftcast button, and make it so it can cross class with arcanist and conjurer.

Cool. Based on what you said, SE could change Lightspeed one more time. (It's good now, but check this out). Lightspeed should reduce 80~90% cast time instead of 2.5 sec so it would be effective with Ascend. If AST will then cross class from CNJ and ACN, SE could also rework Disable, since AST will have access to Virus. Disable could now be an attack skill with a 5sec silence+pacification skill. (Would still disable enemy skills, but not some bosses')

If you take my suggestion of Stella being instant and add slow (maybe a short cooldown), this new Disable could have only the effect. If Disable would have an attack potency, Stella should stay as a 2.5sec On-GCD cast, but still with the slow effect. Gravity should have the heavy effect. (I keep repeating, maybe the dev team will read this ;P)

[Ghishlain]

Good point. But the logic that some people are using is since astro is not as strong as white mage people will not play it. I believe the 180 astrologians on nightly on my server alone speak different then what some people are trying to push.

That is an impressive number of ASTs on at one time. However, without any context it's hard to know exactly how much of the healer population that 180 ASTs actually represents.

For example - at around 10:15 PM EST on my server, here are the healer numbers.

Level 60 ASTs - 47
Level 60 SCHs - 94
Level 60 WHMs - 103

Out of a total of 244 level 60 healers online on my server at this time, only 47 of them (19.3%) are on AST. That's pretty indicative about what my server thinks about AST. I would be curious to see how every server fairs when comparing their AST to their WHM and SCH population.

Level 60 ASTs


Level 60 SCHs


Level 60 WHMs

And I took the level 30-60 numbers as well just to see who's leveling the jobs too.

Level 30-60 ASTs - 97
Level 30-60 SCHs - 160
Level 30-60 WHMs - 200+

Level 30-60 ASTs


Level 30-60 SCHs


Level 30-60 WHMs

So, overall that tells me AST isn't very popular popular on Gilgamesh.

[GideonHighmourn]

So, overall that tells me AST isn't very popular popular on Gilgamesh.

This isn't a thread discussing AST population; Vlady tries to make every single thread about a discussion about AST population somehow meaning it's balanced, which it doesn't.

A detailed break-down about AST population has no place in a thread intended to discuss and compare AST skills to WHM and SCH skills.

While I appreciate the effort and research you've given in your post, please don't feed the troll.

[Cynfael]

Cool. Based on what you said, SE could change Lightspeed one more time. (It's good now, but check this out). Lightspeed should reduce 80~90% cast time instead of 2.5 sec so it would be effective with Ascend...)

Lightspeed's issue as a healing CD is that it ...isn't one. It helps with MP efficiency now, which is nice, but aside from front-loading your first spell, it does nothing for your single target healing and next-to-nothing for your AoE healing (you shave a little time off of Aspected Helios since its base cast time exceeds the GCD, and that's it). I don't mind Lightspeed the way it is, but there's still a gap for a true healing CD, and one that isn't on a 120-150 sec recast.

[Ghishlain]

This isn't a thread discussing AST population; Vlady tries to make every single thread about a discussion about AST population somehow meaning it's balanced, which it doesn't.

A detailed break-down about AST population has no place in a thread intended to discuss and compare AST skills to WHM and SCH skills.

While I appreciate the effort and research you've given in your post, please don't feed the troll.

Based on the way S-E designed AST, I feel like AST was designed to be a single target healer (more so than SCH now) since they don't have anything particularly bursty heals in the AoE department compared to Assize and Indomitability. Synastry is very limited compared to more universal buffs like Divine Seal and Fey Illumination. Also, I don't really have any concerns with ASTs base potency values as they're already covered via faster output (Diurnal) or more power (Nocturnal). As many others have commented, I'm also more concerned about ASTs ability to pull more healing out on demand like SCHs and WHMs can. So, let's build on that a little and see if we can make something comparable to what WHM and SCH has since both have good "o crap, I need to boost my healing abilities" while maintaining the unique flavour of "fast, single target heals".

Synastry - 20s of 50% healing potency when healing someone who isn't buffed by Synastry on 120 second cooldown. Effectively 8.33% increase but limited by the fact it's only affected by Benefic / Benefic II / Aspected Benefic. While the potency value is great, this is a really restrictive spell and if you're taking the time to single heal your entire 8 man up, you run the risk of someone eating danger and dying. I feel like the simplest change is just allow the buffed target to get 50% of the healed amount regardless of if the AST is healing a Synastry'd target or not. May need to tone down the potency a little to suit, but this gives AST a viable healing booster that's still unique to their play style and much more usable.

Lightspeed - As many others have said on these forums, a GCD reduction would go great with this. 25% would be nice and that'll allow you to fit six spells in what was previous a four spell period.

I feel like that'll put AST on track for emergency buttons. Essential Dignity is already really powerful and doesn't really need to be adjusted in any way short of a very slight reduction in its' recast time.

[Vlady]

This isn't a thread discussing AST population; Vlady tries to make every single thread about a discussion about AST population somehow meaning it's balanced, which it doesn't.

A detailed break-down about AST population has no place in a thread intended to discuss and compare AST skills to WHM and SCH skills.

While I appreciate the effort and research you've given in your post, please don't feed the troll.

I am sorry but how is name bashing and making yourself look bad trying to smear someone contribute how to a meaningful discussion about viability of astrologians? People throw numbers at how no one takes astrologians into savage raids and use numbers quite often as a means to measure strength tied to popularity and overall health of a job in particular but once it is applied to balance against your arguement you invalidate your opponents arguement as trolling? Sigh. Why am I feeding the troll even replying to this is beyond me. Please keep to the discussion at hand or it may make you look bad.

Based on the way S-E designed AST, I feel like AST was designed to be a single target healer (more so than SCH now) since they don't have anything particularly bursty heals in the AoE department compared to Assize and Indomitability. Synastry is very limited compared to more universal buffs like Divine Seal and Fey Illumination. Also, I don't really have any concerns with ASTs base potency values as they're already covered via faster output (Diurnal) or more power (Nocturnal). As many others have commented, I'm also more concerned about ASTs ability to pull more healing out on demand like SCHs and WHMs can. So, let's build on that a little and see if we can make something comparable to what WHM and SCH has since both have good "o crap, I need to boost my healing abilities" while maintaining the unique flavour of "fast, single target heals".

Synastry - 20s of 50% healing potency when healing someone who isn't buffed by Synastry on 120 second cooldown. Effectively 8.33% increase but limited by the fact it's only affected by Benefic / Benefic II / Aspected Benefic. While the potency value is great, this is a really restrictive spell and if you're taking the time to single heal your entire 8 man up, you run the risk of someone eating danger and dying. I feel like the simplest change is just allow the buffed target to get 50% of the healed amount regardless of if the AST is healing a Synastry'd target or not. May need to tone down the potency a little to suit, but this gives AST a viable healing booster that's still unique to their play style and much more usable.

Synastry is tailor made for allowing additional healing to be applied to a tank when you are needed to also help bring up critically low people or to allow you to double tank heal when the necessity arises.

Lightspeed - As many others have said on these forums, a GCD reduction would go great with this. 25% would be nice and that'll allow you to fit six spells in what was previous a four spell period.

I feel like that'll put AST on track for emergency buttons. Essential Dignity is already really powerful and doesn't really need to be adjusted in any way short of a very slight reduction in its' recast time.

Lightspeed was made to help fix our mana issues which it does well. Light speed was made to let the Astrologian be able to provide full time healing strength during stressful times when you are having to be wary of mechanics but needing a constant stream of heals. Despite the slightly smaller aoe radius of helios I am able to use lightspeed and move around near a center crowd in a circular motion and hit multiple people faster then a white mage missing people who are not in the radius with light speed so it does have some nice uses. Let astro somehow stance dance between noc and duirnal since Noc is a very potent single target healing stance that can operate with some impressive recovery ability tied to a 500 potency instant cast fronted heal and shield along with single target healing stronger then a scholar when not factoring the pet additional embrace. Being able to swap from durinal to noc would possibly be the only real change we need to handle being able to burst heal.

[GideonHighmourn]

People throw numbers at how no one takes astrologians into savage raids and use numbers quite often as a means to measure strength tied to popularity and overall health of a job in particular but once it is applied to balance against your arguement you invalidate your opponents arguement as trolling?

There is absolutely zero correlation between (how you feel about) the population of AST on your server and how it's skills compare to WHM/SCH's, which is what this thread is about.

Please keep to the discussion at hand or it may make you look bad.

You are the one who brought made-up numbers (based on how you feel, not actual data or research, which at least Ghishlain provided) pertaining to the population of AST into a thread about comparing skills of AST to WHM, not me.

[Vlady]

There is absolutely zero correlation between the population of AST on your server and how it compares to other healers.



You are the one who brought made-up numbers (based on how you feel, not actual data or research) pertaining to the population of AST into a thread about comparing skills of AST to WHM, not me.

Only because I see people post pictures that are setup for scholar and white mage for healer in parties. Conjecture to battle conjecture. The only premise people truly have to argue against the astrologian to begin with is direct comparison of a white mage vs astrologian which is in itself a flawed way to even argue as to why the Astro falls behind. White mage blows the astro out of the water on emergency situations because that is what the white mage does.. At the core I am one of a handful of people who try to stem the tide of so much overwhelming negativity coming across a job that minus two cooldowns that need a change, ben 2 proc buff and allowing astro to stance dance somehow does not need anything else. Our healing minus white mage cooldown use is within the margin of a few % of healing math wise and parse wise.

When I see people ask that astrologian get healing potency boosts I just raise my eyebrow and say what the fudge?

And isnt everything people are bringing up just basically based on what they feel since astro's have proven they can heal savage mode alexander the only thing they have to go on is how they feel the job is so inferior to white mage and scholar they have to let everyone else know how the feeeeel by posting thread after thread after thread after thread of the same thing.

When the ninja job came out there were easily 10 threads a day as to why it was OP and should be nerfed to hell and back then after it was tweaked two weeks later to still show up within 5% of being in line with monk dps you saw another 1 month of belly aching that the job was weak and only summoner would surpass it as being kicked out the most in raids. Same premise different topics.