Another comparation between AST and WHM

[Miiu]

You should pace yourself, it sounds like you planted your face on that desk one too many times already, plus you didn't have an answer.

If AST healing was as effective as WHM at healing, AST = WHM + cards + more accessible insta-heals. Why should anyone take WHM at that point?

First of all you said: Assume for a moment that the potencies of WHM and AST were the same. Why should anyone take a WHM at that point?"

Now you're saying what if AST was as effective as WHM at healing. That is a completely different question. Because if you'd just make the potencies equal to WHM on the skills they have the answer to your original question would be: No.
People have said over and over again that the lower potencies of AST are not the main problem with the class. The problem is the ineffectiveness of their available cooldowns not only in length but in how they work. They don't offer the same safety net the other two jobs provide. Not even with their buffs do they catch up.

Now to your second question: If AST was as an effective healer as WHM + Card buffs would AST be favored over WHM? Yes.

[Roxas_Andrade]

You should pace yourself, it sounds like you planted your face on that desk one too many times already, plus you didn't have an answer.

If AST healing was as effective as WHM at healing, AST = WHM + cards + more accessible insta-heals. Why should anyone take WHM at that point?

I understand you. But first: even if AST was comparable in potency to WHM, people would choose WHM cause they like it. Its not mandatory that you choose the best job for the role you're playing, but the one you like. Second: I don't know if it is commom sense among the community but MY suggestion is just to make AST better, WHM can stll shine with their high throughoutput. I just want to be able to heal, change to cleric, cast a couple dots and go back to healing without being desperate because everybody is almost dying, like any other healer, lol.

[Vlady]

I understand you. But first: even if AST was comparable in potency to WHM, people would choose WHM cause they like it. Its not mandatory that you choose the best job for the role you're playing, but the one you like. Second: I don't know if it is commom sense among the community but MY suggestion is just to make AST better, WHM can stll shine with their high throughoutput. I just want to be able to heal, change to cleric, cast a couple dots and go back to healing without being desperate because everybody is almost dying, like any other healer, lol.

Good point. But the logic that some people are using is since astro is not as strong as white mage people will not play it. I believe the 180 astrologians on nightly on my server alone speak different then what some people are trying to push.

[Ghishlain]

Good point. But the logic that some people are using is since astro is not as strong as white mage people will not play it. I believe the 180 astrologians on nightly on my server alone speak different then what some people are trying to push.

That is an impressive number of ASTs on at one time. However, without any context it's hard to know exactly how much of the healer population that 180 ASTs actually represents.

For example - at around 10:15 PM EST on my server, here are the healer numbers.

Level 60 ASTs - 47
Level 60 SCHs - 94
Level 60 WHMs - 103

Out of a total of 244 level 60 healers online on my server at this time, only 47 of them (19.3%) are on AST. That's pretty indicative about what my server thinks about AST. I would be curious to see how every server fairs when comparing their AST to their WHM and SCH population.

Level 60 ASTs


Level 60 SCHs


Level 60 WHMs

And I took the level 30-60 numbers as well just to see who's leveling the jobs too.

Level 30-60 ASTs - 97
Level 30-60 SCHs - 160
Level 30-60 WHMs - 200+

Level 30-60 ASTs


Level 30-60 SCHs


Level 30-60 WHMs

So, overall that tells me AST isn't very popular popular on Gilgamesh.

[winsock]

First of all you said: Assume for a moment that the potencies of WHM and AST were the same. Why should anyone take a WHM at that point?"

I said the same thing. Potency is power / impact. I rephrased because of the confusion it might cause confusion with skill potency, which it clearly did.

[Volsung]

You didn't answer the question. If AST didn't have the weaknesses it has currently, why take a WHM at all? Potency is all the WHM brings to the table. If that potency difference ever becomes meaningless, AST will always be the superior option. AST needs to have meaningful weaknesses and strengths compared to WHM.

Cure 3
Assize
Asylum
Tetra and bene
E4e and virus
Divine seal

Not just about potencies

[Luvbunny]

AST just need a couple more "oh shit" healing emergency, as well as its own swiftcast button, and make it so it can cross class with arcanist and conjurer. Then the job would be fine. It has similar utilities and perks as the other two healers but more complicated cards to manage. Right now, this job cannot deal with derp-o-rama party or alliance, and would need your group to not be too dumb to function

[Roxas_Andrade]

AST just need a couple more "oh shit" healing emergency, as well as its own swiftcast button, and make it so it can cross class with arcanist and conjurer.

Cool. Based on what you said, SE could change Lightspeed one more time. (It's good now, but check this out). Lightspeed should reduce 80~90% cast time instead of 2.5 sec so it would be effective with Ascend. If AST will then cross class from CNJ and ACN, SE could also rework Disable, since AST will have access to Virus. Disable could now be an attack skill with a 5sec silence+pacification skill. (Would still disable enemy skills, but not some bosses')

If you take my suggestion of Stella being instant and add slow (maybe a short cooldown), this new Disable could have only the effect. If Disable would have an attack potency, Stella should stay as a 2.5sec On-GCD cast, but still with the slow effect. Gravity should have the heavy effect. (I keep repeating, maybe the dev team will read this ;P)

[Cynfael]

Cool. Based on what you said, SE could change Lightspeed one more time. (It's good now, but check this out). Lightspeed should reduce 80~90% cast time instead of 2.5 sec so it would be effective with Ascend...)

Lightspeed's issue as a healing CD is that it ...isn't one. It helps with MP efficiency now, which is nice, but aside from front-loading your first spell, it does nothing for your single target healing and next-to-nothing for your AoE healing (you shave a little time off of Aspected Helios since its base cast time exceeds the GCD, and that's it). I don't mind Lightspeed the way it is, but there's still a gap for a true healing CD, and one that isn't on a 120-150 sec recast.

[GideonHighmourn]

So, overall that tells me AST isn't very popular popular on Gilgamesh.

This isn't a thread discussing AST population; Vlady tries to make every single thread about a discussion about AST population somehow meaning it's balanced, which it doesn't.

A detailed break-down about AST population has no place in a thread intended to discuss and compare AST skills to WHM and SCH skills.

While I appreciate the effort and research you've given in your post, please don't feed the troll.