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  1. #1
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    Starkbeaumont's Avatar
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    Raegen Beaumont
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    Will we ever... (t9 related)

    ...learn who "she" is?

    Nael van Darnus wasn't a woman in 1.0. At least not if you look at the movement and animations (can't count the voice cause of the helmet).
    There was speculation, she is the warrior maiden he defeated. Bradamante. But I recall a DEV post saying it is not her.
    She isn't a humanized form of Bahamut either, as we now know for sure he's a male dragon.
    Or was it just meant "to shock" the legacy players, as Mister-Badass-Megalomaniac was a woman from the very beginning?

    Also I still wonder what the original plan for Nael and Dalamud was, as entrapped Bahamut prime was just the way out of 1.0...
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Belhi's Avatar
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    J'talhdi Belhi
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    The dialog at the time suggested she was probably someone important from Neal's memories, possibly a sister or mother. Perhaps we may one day meet the original woman.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont View Post
    ...learn who "she" is?
    All of the information I've amassed so far suggests that we have all the information we'll get for the foreseeable future, and all that we really need. I will, however, do a rundown in case I need to quote or cite this post in the future. Please note that Square Enix could change this at any time, even if suggestions so far imply that they will not address it further.

    The Tanaka-Era Plan did not include any of this. The Allag were, of course, a big part of the backstory, but Dalamud was an all-original branch built out of necessity. Originally, Hydaelyn just had two moons because two moons is a fast way to say, "Welcome to Manufactured Fantasy World!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Koji Fox
    Yoshida came in and said, “We need to find a way to destroy the world because we need new maps.” He was playing around in the game, looked up, saw that there were two moons that we never really touched upon, and went, “That’s good! We can use that! If we bring that down there’s still another moon."
    In Version 1.0, Nael van Darnus was built using a male Elezen skeleton, leading us to believe that he possessed such a form beneath the armor. We now know that this is just how Garleans are rendered - Elezen skeletons with Hyuran ears and third eyes. In ARR, this is how Gaius is rendered, as well. In all likelihood (as of current knowns), Nael van Darnus was a typical blonde, Hyuran-earred, third-eyed, Elezen-like-framed Garlean person. For 1.0, maybe they tossed an actual Elezen base on him to save time (he used Elezen emotes, too). As for the voice, I've tried very hard to track down a video in which battle grunts could be heard, but so far I haven't found one. If you possess one or can find someone who does, please bring it forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont View Post
    There was speculation <...> she is Bradamante. But I recall a DEV post saying it is not her.
    Indeed, that was my and Fusionx's first assumption since it made for a beautiful story - Darnus dies and his last thought is of Branamante, hinting at a tragic past and mixed feelings about her death. His essence gets diluted upon capture and Bahamut rebuilds him with that image taking over the form. Great, no? Also wrong. Very wrong. Entirely, completely, undoubtedly wrong. Whatever's under the helmet, that's not it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belhi View Post
    The dialog at the time suggested she was probably someone important from Neal's memories, possibly a sister or mother. Perhaps we may one day meet the original woman.
    And this is where I landed after Bradamante was shot down - still a possible interpretation.

    You know another theory I really liked? That since Nael van Darnus was a very loose reference to Sephiroth, T9 Darnus' form was a very subtle reference to Jenova, using Bahamut as a vehicle for that reference. If that's how you choose to see it, that's not bad at all, imho. However, that's (almost) just as guaranteed as Bradamante to be a completely unintended and inaccurate assumption.

    There's also a theory that Nael was always a woman and pulled a Pope Joan on everyone. There's nothing official on this theory either way, but even if she was a Brienne of Tarth-level masculine hulk of a woman, how did she keep it a secret as a military general? Do they not have mandatory health exams? Soldiers have never seen her in any stage of un-armored-dress on the battlefield (and Darnus spent quite some time on the battlefields of the East)? It's not on their official military file or profile or identification? If a female can pass as a male as a vetted military general born and raised of a national war hero from childhood even amongst other military generals, some bureaucratic reform is probably necessary.

    The final one I've seen is that (since the Japanese version used no specifically-engendered pronouns) localizers made incorrect assumptions and had to cover their ass once their mistake had been revealed by the glorious, unsullied Japanese Master Client.

    Painful though it may be to admit, current information points to that last theory being closest to the mark, although perhaps still more wrong than not on the whole. The implication that localizers can't be bothered to confirm a concrete known on the JP end with Scenario and/or World Lore before shipping it off into a released version is silly. Little mistakes and bugs slip though all the time, even on gender (especially on goblin gender), but nobody noticed and thought it worth pointing out until it was too late? Perhaps, I guess, but it's not my first assumption - and even Japanese apparently used masculine-assumed speech on occasion (I can't read that, but I've been led to believe that's what that implies, lol.)

    The truth
    , as far as I can tell, was that it wasn't ever going to come up in a detailed way as of 2012, filed away in the DON'T THINK TOO HARD ABOUT IT box where we keep questions like, "Why is the Water Crystal of Light obtained without any connection to water?" and "Why does all of the Dusk Vigil gear have House Fortemps crest even though Yuhelmeric commanded House Durendaire's knights?" and "How is Roegafell babby formed?"

    Because there doesn't seem to have been any official back-end plan for Darnus beneath the mask (and I've still yet to find any vocal tracks), surely multiple impressions formed in the minds of multiple people. Maybe some saw a man doing slightly effeminate emotes, maybe some saw a tall, powerful woman. As Nael was given a projected personality in several languages (and we've seen many characters' personalities differ slightly by client), perhaps those unique versions were reinforced. Kinda makes you wonder: Did Square Enix know what Gaius van Baelsar looked like under the mask in 2010? Livia and Rhitatyn in 2013? Now?

    The helmet never came off, and Nael died. The end - until it wasn't. When T9 was designed, obviously one visual impression of what was under the mask became digitally manifest. Based on the fact that there is absolutely zero consensus by language, I'm guessing that each was free to account for this how they saw fit. Some jump right on the bandwagon and have Darnus "herself" state, "I was once a weak little girl." English, however, seems to tap into the questions I mentioned earlier, ("What, Gaius didn't know better? It's not on Nael's Imperial military personnel record? Nael never relieved themselves on the battlefield or saw a doctor?") and blatantly stated, "Nael was a man, Bahamut messed up."

    For what it's worth, a chunk of us made it to Fan Festival and Rocl flat out asked people when he got the chance. If I remember correctly, Koji Fox suggested that Yoshida field the question and Yoshida stated, "Man! MAN! Always man!"

    If you want an in-world answer retrospective from 2015, that's probably as good as you're going to get.

    If you want The Truth, it's probably a little more complicated than that.

    If you want my advice:

    Don't think too hard about it.
    (24)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 08-07-2015 at 05:15 PM.

  4. #4
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    Mikedizzy's Avatar
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    I heard from someone that the original plan was they were going to have you go up to Dalamud and do something up there (RAID???). But with the way things happened with the game it changed. Not sure if this is correct or not...just what I heard.
    (0)

    Server: BEHEMOTH
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    Playing since Beta phase 3

  5. #5
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    Rocl's Avatar
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    Rocl Montaigne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    EDIT INCOMING (It'll be a few minutes; not a short post - must needs be thorough on this one)
    Pre-emptive French is the language of liars
    (1)

  6. #6
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    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Holy sh[kupo!]t, it took me an hour and a half to edit that post fully? Sorry about that.

    Anyway, French is the language of liars, that should cover it.

    I'm sure there are people that won't be satisfied by such a conclusion, but unless SE finds a reason to dig this all back up again (or decides to expend further resources on settling a pedantic specific for which they've already left room for personal speculation), they probably must needs get over it.
    (0)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 07-28-2015 at 06:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Rocl's Avatar
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    I have a lot of regrets about not doing things right in Vegas, but getting to ask Yoshida that question was definitely a good move. However I'd be more keen to ask Oda-san. So Oda-san please come to next NA Fanfest.
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Starkbeaumont's Avatar
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    thanks for the write up. funny thing i always remember those final cutscenes in 1.23b having voice acting for nael and so on. but apparently i was wrong. guess it was more badass in my head while reading the cs than it really was

    I guess in future we have to go and face the empire at their own home base. maybe then we will learn more about Nael, Gaius and whoever else we will kill to achieve our goal protecting eorzea...
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont View Post
    I guess in future we have to go and face the empire at their own home base. maybe then we will learn more about Nael, Gaius and whoever else we will kill to achieve our goal protecting eorzea...
    <4.0 Ala Mhigan dungeon; Garlean records abandoned>

    "Hold up, I wanna read this sparkly thing."

    [As requested, Lord Baelsar - all information pertaining to Nael van Darnus of the VIIth Legion, scheduled for arrival within a fortnight to assume command of Ala Mhigan conscripts. His Radiance bids the XIVth act in a supporting role until the Meteor project concludes.]

    "Oh, man, answers! Stop, stop! Here's another one!"

    [Nael of House Darnus; assumed lordship upon father's death under suspicious circumstances. Past deployments mostly Othardian in nature. Confirmed killer of Bradamante. Age and gender appear to be smudged.]

    "FFFFUUUUUUU."
    (10)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 07-28-2015 at 06:28 PM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  10. #10
    Player
    Nalien's Avatar
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    Taisai Jin
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    I'm incline to think it is his mother.

    The possibility of Nael desu Darnus being the result of Naels dying thoughts was a possibility mentioned directly by Alisaie (or was it Urianger later?), and after regaining his senses, Nael makes a passing mention that he was once a weak child. He suggests that he had a fairly traumatic childhood, considering that he only even brought the topic up with regards to the "trauma" Alisaie would go through continuing her quest. Something terrible happening to a beloved elder? I'm incline to think Nael had a good relationship with his mother, as a weak child one would certain seek their mother for comfort, and at deaths door I'd imagine he'd think back to her (he was once again "weak") and confuse Bahamut. Can't imagine babby Nael would confide with his father, considering what is suggested he did to his father, if anything I'd imagine his father did something to his mother, hence the bloodshed and heartlessness...

    I really kind of hope they expand on the White Ravens history at a later date, there is a fair bit more they could do with the character, even if he is dead. Heck, Gaius could also do with some fleshing out, considering right now I get the distinct impression that he was basically crucified in order to rebuild the realm... I just found him to be so very badly written in 2.0... At the very least I'd like to know what drove him to such an obsession with conquest... Nael we know got corrupted by Bahamut, but Gaius? He just ran off on a failed conquest and left the Emperor to die, although I'm starting to doubt that Gaius wielding Heirsbane was in anyway relevant, considering the weapon seems to be standard issue now (here's a fun game, how many copies of Heirsbane did you spot in Azys Lla?).
    (3)

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