Change for Steel Cyclone?

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

damage... right, because Steel Cyclone actually inflicts anything more then 1% damage on normal enemy in an instance. it is powerful enough on enemies in the world, but the damage isn't even noticeable in an instance. and yes it can be used to get a good HP return, but you need buffs for this. however, using it for a HP return is situational. and, if it can be helped, a good tank obviously isn't going to leave reducing a tank buster to chance.

again, the most practical use for Steel Cyclone is enmity generation.



anyhow, i wasn't stressing any importance on the matter. i never meant for it to sound like it is something that is a must-have. it was just an idea. people don't like it, that is okay. either way, i appreciate all the advice the people who weren't trying to be rude has contributed here. thank you very much.

[Freyyy]

damage... right, because Steel Cyclone actually inflicts anything more then 1% damage on normal enemy in an instance. it is powerful enough on enemies in the world, but the damage isn't even noticeable in an instance.

You're very wrong on this. WAR's AoE damage is very very noticeable in dungeons and can often be on par with non-caster DPS.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

You're very wrong on this. WAR's AoE damage is very very noticeable in dungeons and can often be on par with non-caster DPS.

yeah. as a WAR i find myself able to burst down, depending on the instance, around 15~25% HP from a large mob. however, using Steel Cyclone all by itself just because of its properties isn't going to contribute anything to the over-all damage during the encounter. it is like only 1~2% damage to HP.

[SpookyGhost]

Steel Cyclone is one of your two (technically 3 if you crossclass Flash) AOE options. One of the two uses TP, a limited resource that can only be regenerated through the natural TP tick outside of Deliverance. In AOE situations, you have 3 choices for Wrath:

1. Use Unchained. This is the overall highest increase in AOE DPS you can get at the cost of not regenerating any TP and also using up a 120s CD that might not be available later at the boss.
2. Use Inner Beast. This is when you value mitigation over damage, you will get more out of Inner Beast as it will always reduce the damage you take for 6s vs the increased parry rate which only has a chance to mitigate some physical hits maybe.
3. Use Steel Cyclone. This is for when you can't afford to use Unchained and don't have any use for IB. If IB isn't necessary in this trash pull, there's equally no reason to have that extra parry chance as it is an RNG version of IB.

In any AOE situation where you have Wrath available, you should use it. There's really no excuse to sit on it, having the increased parry rate is never a better option than your 3 choices to spend the stacks on. You just need to plan carefully which it is you'd like to go for and not just decide to spend Unchained right before a boss (unless its a speed run in which case you're probably starting with Deliverance anyway).

It was a good idea to sit on the stacks in 2.0 because it was literally how you got your healing bonus, a core function of the job's mitigation, but now that all you get is a small parry rate increase and at the cost of not using the 3 of your Wrath abilities... it's just not worth it.

[Phoenicia]

yeah. as a WAR i find myself able to burst down, depending on the instance, around 15~25% HP from a large mob. however, using Steel Cyclone all by itself just because of its properties isn't going to contribute anything to the over-all damage during the encounter. it is like only 1~2% damage to HP.

You are really deluded if you think 1.5k is "only 1~2%" of a mob's HP. You're assuming trash mobs have 100k HP each? They have at most 30k and pumping a Steel Cyclone will remove at least something between 3~7% depending on crits/zerk.

[Freyyy]

You really seem to underestimate a WAR's damage. SC is easily doing as much (if not more) damage as most of the AoE moves DPS jobs possess when under Berserk. A WAR during trash pulls can REALLY participate in killing stuff pretty HARD. And it's even more efficient if you have the balls to switch to Deliverance and Decimate everything.

Plus when it comes to parry, you now have Raw Intuition, which gives you 100% parry rate.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i'm not under-estimating the damage output of a WAR. however, i have specifically asked groups on a few occasions through Expert Roulette to allow me to see the damage of Steel Cyclone. the result is pretty much the same as at the testing dummy. it inflicts roughly 1~2% damage to the HP. it does around 863 (sometimes around 950 with the party STR buff) damage, with my current gear. (AIL155)

when in a level 60 dungeon i Parry roughly 1/3 of all attacks throughout the dungeon. with no stacks of Wrath applied the amount of attacks i Parry is noticeably less, roughly 1/5 as compared to 1/3. and in level 50 dungeons i Parry roughly almost 1/2 of all attacks, without the Wrath it is around 1/4.

all-in-all, when using Steel Cyclone all by itself, the most practical use is Enmity. which simply isn't worth trading a Parry buff for. again, i am not and have never been discounting any other uses for the skill. Enmity is easy enough to generate without the use of Steel Cyclone. it just isn't worth trading Parry for a tiny bit of Enmity.


either way, the skill has plenty use as is. and again, i never considered it a bad skill to begin with. it was just a concern with trading Parry to generate what is a rather small amount of Enmity.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

I don't know where to begin.... I'll try.

Did you actually parse your parry rate? There is NO WAY IN HELL you can parry more than 20% (1/5) with current gear. 1/4? 1/3? even 1/2? Dude, I'm sorry to say this, you are plainly lying! Or you are trying to make fools of the tank community.

Where are your numbers coming from? If your gear is so shite that your SC does half of what it should (ilv155), you won't parry more than the ilv190 tanks (15~17%.)

My WAR is ilv178 I think, I have a 160 weapon and my SC does 1300 without Berserk! Mobs in dungeons do not have 100k HP, they have more like 50k. 1.5k is 3%. 3% to EVERY mob from ONE skill is VERY significant.

Let's ignore the damage factor, Steel Cyclone is the single highest AoE enmity generating skill in the entire game! At nearly 800 potency, and it costs 0 TP! Using SC means you need less Overpowers and you can refresh your Maim buff and rebuild your Wrath.

It is NEVER keeping tiny bit of parry over Steel Cyclone or Unchained! If you want to parry so hard, use Raw Intuition, you WILL parry 100% of the time and Wrath + parry stat will be useless.

If you are so worried about the damage you take, and since you seem to magically parry 1/5 of the time anyways, USE your stacks on Inner Beast. IB has 30~33% uptime if you use it as soon as it charges. You will be GUARANTEED reduce damage by 20%, 30% of the time! You still parry while IB is up!

I personally don't even know why you wanna stay in Defiance after building enough threat (1 Steel Cyclone and 1~2 Overpowers). Pop a defensive CD and switch to Deliverance and literally "Decimate" those mobs.

TL;DR: Don't be that guy, don't hold on to your wrath for parry. But if you want to be that guy, then fine, it's your choice to be bad.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i have spent about the last 3 weeks watching closely the amount of attacks that i Parry throughout both Lv50 and Lv60 dungeons. in lv60 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/3 of the time, without Wrath it occurs roughly 1/5 of the time. and in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time. i dunno, maybe i am just super lucky every run of a dungeon. i also can't use those tools on the PS4

Steel Cyclone just doesn't even seem to be generating enough Enmity for me. at first i contributed this due to the fact the majority of DPS people out-gear me. but even when i am in a group with DPS that are on equal footing in gear, or even less... using Steel Cyclone simply doesn't do anything to their Enmity. i look at the party list and see their bar not move down in the slightest. even Flash has been showing me more Enmity gain on the party list.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

and yes, Unchained and Inner Beast are good skills to use your Wrath on. i use them all the time. i use Unchained + Berserk on boss encounters to get enough Enmity to allow me to switch to Deliverance. however, i usually only use Inner Beast when i know a heavy hit is coming.

[Kuwagami]

in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time.

I would like to know how you can conclude anything from "data" showing that a +10% parry rate buff gives a +25% parry rate in practice.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

you're not considering the huge difference there is in stats in a +10 ilvl difference between i100 and i150

You can tank easily any i130 while in i100. You'll have troubles tanking i190 if you're in i160.