Limit Break and Tanks

[Grupp]

We're in a battle. It's a boss. He's got a huge group of circles on the ground where he's gonna smack us with AOEs. Limit Break has been lit for about 30 seconds. " Why NOT use it I say to myself? It's near the end of the fight. The LB goes off and the cool shields of stone drop like hammers BOOM. Then shortly later the boss dies.

And then the same Lancer that's been refusing to pick up adds says to me before he hits exit " TANKS NEVER LB " without explaining why.

So what's the answer? Should a Tank NOT use LB?

[NovaLevossida]

Tanks should always use LBs when DPS are not going to use the LB. It's a harsh reminder that they're not doing their job properly. That DRG there just didn't want to face the fact that he failed at hitting the WIN button.

DPS should use the limit break unless the healer needs to get an 8-man group on its feet with a LB3. Tank LB should only be used in certain situations (like saving a fail group when Cloud of Darkness absorbed too many clouds) or otherwise to remind the DPS they actually have a LB button.

[Ditto]

It all depends on when you LB'd. Like how much HP the boss had left.

DPS will often wait until the bosses HP is low enough before LB'ing, or just low enough to where the LB will finish them off instantly. If you LB before that, you took the LB away from the DPS basically, who could have ended the fight sooner.

Just gotta accept that the tank LB is garbage outside of when it's forced like T13 use to be, or in rare cases like the bad groups on the cloud of darkness. Simply telling a DPS to LB in party chat would serve it better, and if they still don't, guess you get to see your cool tank LB because the DPS aren't paying any attention.

[Kumori_Kumo]

The way this game works kind of determines that, unfortunately, there really is no point to the tank LB. It saves the healer a very small amount of MP, and that's pretty much the end of it outside of a very very specific handful of situations that are almost impossible to plan for. I've kind of wished LBs were individual for a long time now; that way the tank LB would be a helpful boon during a high damage phase rather than a griefing tool.

[saber_alter]

The way this game works kind of determines that, unfortunately, there really is no point to the tank LB. It saves the healer a very small amount of MP, and that's pretty much the end of it outside of a very very specific handful of situations that are almost impossible to plan for. I've kind of wished LBs were individual for a long time now; that way the tank LB would be a helpful boon during a high damage phase rather than a griefing tool.

pvp got this at least.


tank lb is used as an "oh shit" button, or when it's needed for a high damage boss ulti (like teraflare in turn 13).

otherwise it's kinda useless. like healer lb (don't deny it, we're probably going to wipe even though you just raised us all).

[Kumori_Kumo]

otherwise it's kinda useless. like healer lb (don't deny it, we're probably going to wipe even though you just raised us all).

I won't deny that for a moment; I've always felt like Weakness kind of destroys any usefulness of the healer LB3. If we couldn't stay alive with full stats, we're certainly not going to with heavily reduced stats. :T

[GeekMatt]

I LB at the end of fights if it wasn't used reasonably (regardless of my role), just for funzies. But I'm talking about a fight where the boss will be dead in <10 seconds from our regular attacks anyways.

As for the whining DRG, he'll get over it. Admittedly the tank LB is the least useful LB in the game--something like an instant mega AoE aggro grab might serve more purpose (at least when shit hits the fan/tank dies) because the uses of our current LB are extremely few and far between and only "necessary" maybe twice in the game.

In any case I'd like to take this moment to whine about how poorly players make use of their LBs in general. Healers shouldn't hesitate to LB if the party's about to die, and caster LB on full-room trash pulls are more valuable than melee LB on a boss (unless it's actually hurting your AoE DPS somehow). Also, saving LB for an ENTIRE DUNGEON to LB2 the last boss is silly. If you're doing full clear you can LB1 two bosses and LB2 the last boss. If not you can at least LB1 the first boss and have it built up again by last boss. Lastly if you're puting off LB-ing in case of an urgent healer/tank LB is needed, that's fine. Otherwise saving LB for the last possible moment is inefficient.

/raging table flip

[Canadane]

The DPS that wait until the last 2% of the bosses HP to hit the LB are probably my least liked types of players.
If your LB is going to do 4-6% of the bosses HP, use it when it has 7% left, not 1%.

This is why if I see a boss reach 5% or less without the LB used, I use it as tank.
The usefulness of the damage LB has already been squandered by that point.

[Grupp]

Ok, I Think I see where your all coming from. But what about the Tank/warrior using LB3? That's an amazing 50% reduction in incoming damage for 20 seconds. That seems pretty useful.

[Erim-Nelhah]

Ok, I Think I see where your all coming from. But what about the Tank/warrior using LB3? That's an amazing 50% reduction in incoming damage for 20 seconds. That seems pretty useful.

It is useful. It's just that most of the time a DPS limit break is more useful. The only case where the Tank LB is more useful than a DPS LB is when there's predictable incoming damage that you know the party won't be able to survive (or will have a lot of diffuclty surviving) without it. Only 3 places come to mind for this: Ultima Weapon Hard, when done at-level ("Minimum IL" now), T13 at-level (again generally "Minimum IL"), and Cloud of Darkness if your DPS let too many clouds through during the cloud phase. It's quite possible that it'll be needed in A4 Savage, but since nobody's beaten A3 Savage yet, we don't know.

--Erim Nelhah
(Master, Astral Descendants <AD>, Malboro)
(60 DRK Main)