Thread: (Un)Official Summoner Feedback Thread [3.0 Edition]

My opinion, In the event that SMN were to move form the pets, then it needs a mixture of Trance and Dissipation, a way to absorb the Pet and take on the form of the original primal.

The only issue with that (besides balance) is Lore, For this might be seen as Summoning in the Game's general context and with it a risk to tempering your allies, and the canon has only 1 WoL at a time AFAIK (There's also the Crystal issue and the fact that thus far actualy summoning a bona fide primal would way OOC), so I don;t think we are gonna move away form the pets for quite some time now.

Other more likely changes I would suggest are:

• Chancing the Icons of Summon and Summon II to match (this goes for SCH too, Selene even has 2 icons that could fit for Summon II, but I digress) only keeping the Carbuncle icons for ACN (they did it for Cards and Jutsu, this should be similar IMO)
• Have Garuda-egi get a new ability and let the player use Contagion without a pet (Same foes for Carby as well) It seems like Contagion gives Garuda an advantage to SMNs that fail to manage their DoTs (those that keep the DoTs I think use Ifrit-egi instead or keep Garuda for her other abilities), plus it makes Bane a little more powerful, especially if Contagion is given to ACN (and by extension SCH)
• Have Titan-egi work like the paladin's Cover, only on the Tank, taking all the damage in their stead (may be mutually exclusive with the "Give the Player Contagion" thing)

These are my ideas for SMN, but TBH I liked the DoT aspect of the job, so I'm not gonna complain if they don't bring it more in line with the traditional ones

My main issue with SMN's pets is Contagion. It shouldn't be on Garuda. Instead it should be an ability SMN gets innately, or not at all. The whole reason Garuda 'does more damage' is because that ability extends your DWT dot uptime. That change would make it clear that Ifrit is for Single Target DPS, and Garuda could have another AoE nuke/dot skill in its place to solidify it as an AoE pet. The same thing would have to be applied to Emerald Carbuncle as well, since they're directly linked. Ifrit's mobility problem can be solved with a movement speed adjustment. He's not tied to a carbuncle, so it should be easier to fix. Titan is also fine as is. He is the solo vit mcnugget pet. Let him do that. Giving him provoke is begging for him to MT things he shouldn't be MTing, even if it's only for a few moments.

SMN's kit overall is fine as it is. Arcanist is the base class, after all, and the DoTs fit their flavor just fine.

For 4.0, though, there are some things I'd like to see:
Give us more Aetherflow
- Add another way to generate Aetherflow (an extra 2-3stacks/min would go a long way. Might require adjusting aethertrail to compensate. More than that would open up the option of adding skills that use two stacks as well, but they aren't strictly necessary).
- Allow us to stockpile Aetherflow over the 3 stack cap during combat only (make it an extra buff that stacks to some unreasonable amount, like 24, because of this). SCH could use this too, to be honest, so they don't need to spend stacks on Energy Drains until their MP is actually struggling. It would make dissipation more useful, though it would have to put the fairy in stasis or something instead of getting rid of it entirely to truly shine.

New DPS options
- We need a single target only DoT. Likely a 1 minute DoT Ability with at least 50 potency/tick on a 1 min cd to enforce this. It could be the thing that generates aetherflow. If it did, killing the target should give you the remaining aetherflow stacks instantly, to prevent nerdrage. Maybe make it boost fester as well, given the next idea.
- A new aetherflow using CD that boosts the potency of the next few ruin spells temporarily. Add 300 potency to the next spell, 150 potency to the next two, or 100 the next three. This is equal to a fester with varying degrees of speed/control, and is meant for short-term burst purposes where setting up DoTs for a fester isn't viable and painflare won't hit two mobs (add phase in a3n or adds in the bosses of SaintMA/PSHard in general come to mind).
- A magic vulnerability CD (Not strictly necessary in combination with everything else, but again, Imperil would be nice to have).

Rescale old DPS skills
- Rework Tri-Bind to be our filler AoE spell that's better than Blizzard II in some way. Some combination of slightly more potency (60-70. On par with Miasma II or slightly below it) and/or lower MP cost (somewhere between Blizzard II and Ruin II. The mana cost for Esuna seems about right).
- Give us a minor potency increase to Ruin (20-30) to make it equal to or better than Ruin II book smacking. Maybe increase the MP cost to compensate for that. Increase Ruin III by the same amount or more as well to even things out. SCH has Broil and BLM has Fire IV so I don't see why we can't have this.



Utility
- A personal defensive cooldown (Either a manawall/ward for everything, or an adlo shield cd that scales on INT) is something we lack compared to other DPS. Make it work on the pet as well.
- Give us a way to use Physick effectively in emergencies. Something like a 20% healing potency increase, that adds attack magic potency to healing magic potency for 15s, on a 3min cooldown. This could replace Sustain on Arcanist, giving SCH access to their own Divine Seal as well as letting SMN use it in combat.

Quality of Life
- Combine Supervirus into Virus. BLMs and WHMs will thank you.
- Turn Sustain into a trait, or give pets innate drain on their main dps skills. Either way it shouldn't be something we have to manage.

My SMN pipedream overhaul:

Work in Progress. Just posting here to check my formatting and because this thread can probably use a bump.

Main Objectives:

• Increased identity and versatility through increased pet relevance and interaction
• Increased pet responsiveness and uniqueness
• More macro-rotation options (something that will then be fairly unique to SMN)
• Increased group and (especially) personal utility components
• Some small quality of life adjustments

Highlights:

• Pets now have a toggle-able effect upon their Summoner that can change rotational gameplay and, at later stages, add elemental affinities, renaming and retooling the majority of Arcanist abilities. These latter effects stack with each pet used to create elemental affinities, causing combined elemental effects. Unaspected damage still has a place in Summoner gameplay, but mostly for its universally synergistic effects and/or unique stacking mechanics.
• These mechanics basically replace Aethertrail, but Dreadwyrm form/affinity can still be reached through a combination of synergistic or conflicting elemental affinities, with a certain minimum of Aetherflow expenditure. It now marks a less frequent, but more powerful and entertaining transition that Summoners will usually try to time to their (or raid) burst phases.
• Rifts have been added as a major component of Summoner gameplay, as an upgraded version of new linking mechanics given to Arcanist to make it more supportive. These allow the storage of certain effects and casts. Its overall effect makes Arcanist more supportive and group-coordinating and Summoner additionally more strategic and even more bursty (in a significantly different way than by Painflare or mini-Ahk-Morne).
• At any point in time, the Summoner will have four three options for how he would generally like to spend his Aetherflow stacks: by (1) buffing himself (via pet) [now free/automatic with pet buffs???], (2) buffing his pet, (3) using a caster special ability, or (4) using a pet special ability.
• Pets can now be consumed in a variety of ways to cause similar effects to any the above except (2). They may blow themselves up to deal damage/effect, combine with the Summoner for added caster bonuses and modifications, or be consumed for a combined caster/pet attack.

Concerns:

• Need to finish writing it...
• Not sure if I want Trance to be its own AF expenditure, or automatic.
• Not sure if I want to focus on ways to gain AF stacks from combat, just having more AF stacks, or some combination of the two.
• Need to balance pure caster choices given more AF stacks. May need ramp-up, but in general I'd like them to still be fairly strong even without that. I don't want to lose much SMN burst, even though I do want to immensely increase their long-term strategy. (For instance, I'd likely nerf the initial Bane spread, Fester potency per DoT, etc.
• Need to figure out how strong I want pure caster choices to be against Spur/Invoke (pet buff and pet attack, respectively). I want to require some pet usage for optimal DPS in most situations, but I don't want it to be so weak that it wouldn't be used in the situations where it would obviously seem more useful. I want to make the most options possible while also trying to stay very SMN-ish. Given the general, unrestricted usefulness of the direct caster abilities, they'd probably have to be a bit weaker as not to push out the more SMN-like elements of the job's here-revised gameplay.

General adjustments:

• Unique 'dash' animations have been added to each pet. A pet may carry three of these at a time, and they recharge over 15 seconds each. They may be consumed to move into range for an ability or for move orders. Dashes will be triggered based on the proximity of the ordered range or gap between the pet and target and the ordered ability's range and dash's distance covered.
• Pets additionally now have 50% greater movement speed, which fades over 4 seconds while moving for more than 1 second. Being 'stationary' (not moving for more than 1 second at a time, starting after a second without movement) will recharge this effect over 4 seconds.
• Additionally, the base movement speed of all pets has been further increased by 15%.
• Pets may now grow in size according to certain effects.
• Each pet now also has a smaller, sprite form, from which it may cause certain effects but can do almost nothing on its own until summoned or manifested again.
• Pets can now be ordered mid-animation/cast/GCD.
• Using Sic will not prevent you from manually controlling your pet's abilities.
• While in Obey, any manual action ordered (unless the same action as being cast, on the same target) will immediately replace its current action, rather than queueing the ability. While in Sic, the same occurs if you make the order twice.
• The animation lock of all pet abilities has been greatly reduced.
• Pets now make use of mana. Their mana pools are now generally larger than the caster's, but their mana efficiency is far worse, giving them less use of Mage's Ballad, Bishop Autoturret's Promotion, Ewer, or other mana-regenerating effects. Certain pet cooldown abilities have had their cooldowns reduced but now cost mana.
• Ground-targeted abilities/spells can now be queued like any other (non-ground-targeted) spell. Queuing will allow you to chose your target location, and the ground-targeted ability/spell will be cast at that location once the GCD is ready.

Clipping (abilities removed, modified, or UI-adjusted):

• Dreadwyrm Trance - [Clipped] - now just one of many options embedded within SMN passive mechanics and activated through the Trance/Coalesce [name TBD] ability.
• Dreadflare - [Clipped] Painflare simply hits about that hard now when in Trance - Chaos/Bahamut. Tri-disaster, Tri-bind, and Fester are now also affected, each at cost of Trance - Bahamut duration.
• Summon I(Garuda)/II(Titan)/III - [UI Change] - Though there are still direct links to summon Titan and Ifrit, Carbuncle now remains an (inferior, but situationally useful) unaspected Summon choice. "Summon" itself now brings up a wheel or pop-up menu, allowing you to pick from up to 8 summons: Emerald Carbuncle, Topaz Carbuncle, Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva.
• Spur - [Modified] - Now a way to spend Aetherflow, rather than a simple CD. Now pushes forward CD timers on use, increases cooldown speed, increases attack speed, and increases pet regen in addition to basic damage increase, but each at only 20% effect, fading over 30 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Though its effect diminishes over time, the actual duration of the Spur buff is infinite when in combat. Upon exiting combat it will be given 30 seconds' duration.
• Enkindle - [Replaced] - Effects now covered through pet the combination of AF-spending attacks, adjusted Spur, and pet-consuming abilities.
• Sustain - [Clipped/Replaced] - Your actual attacks may now be used on your pet when of correct element to heal it and slightly increase its defense, regen, and/or attack power. Numerous self-regening effects have also been added to the pets themselves. However, some direct healing does still remain through 'Aetherial Bond'.

New Components, Mechanics, and Concepts Explained:

New Aetherflow Expenditure Options

You can now spend Aetherflow on:

• (1) Your current aetherflow abilities - Bane, Fester, Energy Drain, and Painflare. These supply additional effects, similar to how they provided Aethertrail before, which causes them to ramp up similarly to the combination of Spur and Invoke.
• (2) Spur - an improved version of the old Spur, affecting also attack speed, HP/MP regen, and cooldown rates by 33%, stacking up to 3 times. All but 15% of these effects fade over 30 seconds but the stack counts themselves last for an infinite duration (within combat; outside of combat, stacks only last 40 seconds). Stacks increase pet size, Defense/Magic Defense, and maximum health/MP and determine the traits that can be transferred from the pet to the caster through Trance/Coalesce or the effectiveness of those traits. (Consuming a pet to buff oneself will give effects based on the pet's stacks + 1.)
• (3) Invoke - similar to Enkindle, but with varying effects based on Spur stacks. Power is roughly equal to Fester in ST or Painflare/Bane in AoE, but with some of that damage usually invested instead in utility and/or more synergy with pet interaction. Also just way cooler.
• (4) Trance ---------------- decided instead to cover this through Spur itself. ???

Pet Uniqueness

• Ifrit - Ifrit consumes mana over time, but regenerates both health and mana through attacks and nearby fire damage dealt by himself or his Summoner. Mana may increase above maximum. Ifrit's attack speed and ability damage increase based on his current mana, but so do his mana drain rate and ability mana costs. Skillcap in optimal usage vastly increased. Receives healing and mana both immediately and over time through fire damage done directly to him by his Summoner. His toggle-able linked effect allows the caster to consume DoT duration and to accelerate cast times at cost of duration and initial damage. He is an ideal 'early build' pet with great ramp-up for later macrorotation. Consuming Garuda to combine with the Summoner allows for melee options, and the best short-range cleave available to Summoner. Easily the most fun pet for those focused on microrotation and the utterly ridiculous.
• Garuda - ................Very reliable, slightly more long-term pet with great early and mass cleave. Consuming Garuda to combine with the Summoner allows for interesting microrotation through Featherstorm, allows casts while moving, and cleave-damaging dashes. Probably the most fun for those who like microing pet movement, the geometry of combat, or feeling untouchable.
• Titan - ............Highly tactical pet who can be far more than he appears - the (unique portions buffed) PLD of pets. Consuming Titan to combine with the Summoner allows the Summoner to form rifts on himself and grants heavily increased Defense and Magic Defense and the Tremor/Resonance mechanic, useful for slowing and AoEing through DoTs. The most fun for those who love the ideas of storing effects, loading spell traps, feeling all-role, or preparing for painful phase changes.

Affinities and Arcanist Retooling

Not all core abilities are replaced in each Affinity; rather, each simply puts a new spin on gameplay. Additionally, dropping affinity briefly is a frequently useful option (short-ish CD). DoTs do not stack with their alternate-affinity equivalents (e.g. Bio I with Burn I), but may carry over a portion of duration of the replaced DoT when exceeding the replacing DoT's duration, or the replaced DoT's potency per tick when exceeding the replacing DoT's, causing a certain useful equilibrium between them.

• While using Ifrit's Affinity - Flame, Ruin I becomes Ignite, Ruin II becomes Scorch, Ruin III becomes Raze, Bio I becomes Burn I, Bio II becomes Burn II, Miasma becomes Melt I, Miasma II becomes Melt II, and Shadowflare becomes Ember Sea. Gain the passive mechanics Meltdown and Ignition. [In short, Ignition causes any speed gains to cause further speed gains--e.g. a Swiftcast would increase your attack speed proportional to the cast time skipped, averaged with 2.5, time saved during a pet-triggered Skill Speed buff causes further time saved, etc. Meltdown allows rolling DoTs, increasing their potency at duration cost. ????

Affinity - Flame:

• Ruin/Ignite -
• Ruin II/Scorch -
• Ruin III/Raze -
• Bio I/Burn I -
• Bio II/Burn II -
• Miasma I/Melt I -
• Miasma II/Melt II -
• Shadowflare/Ember Sea -

• While using Garuda's Affinity - Gale, Ruin I becomes Windcut, Ruin II becomes Windshear, Ruin III becomes Windspine, Bio I becomes Choke...

Affinity - Gale:

• ...
• ...

• While using Titan's Affinity - Stone, Ruin I becomes Sway, Ruin II becomes Shake, Ruin II becomes Quake, Bio I becomes Rasp I, Bio II becomes...

Affinity - Stone:

• ...
• ...

I tend to agree that dreadwyrm trance was the right direction to take summoners. The pets are nice and all, but if the pets are the core of the job and get all the skills you may end up with a job that is exceedingly boring to play.

The player would be so disconnected from the action that it would appeal to a much smaller group.

Personally i think it would have been smarter to have a single pet that can be glamoured from a set of options and have the pet gain skills with your level that can be customized on the pet bar. At any rate the design team made their choice.

I'm just shocked sometimes at the ugliness and uninspired design of the Egis... is there really a reason that they couldn't have been miniature flying versions of the primals? If lore prevents that, then just something a bit more representative of the awesome primal.

I mean, we already have the most boring looking weapons out there, can we get some egis that look like adults designed them?

I've always envied the Scholar's faerie with its dapper looks and compact size. The faerie looks like an actual summonned being. In contrast the egis look like placeholder designs from beta that made it through because someone deleted the files with the final designs... may i have your faeries my scholar friends?