AST Sect Theory

[MidnightTundra]

But your analysis is missing nocturnal benefic I. That's the most efficient spell I was talking about.

Oh you meant regular Benefic in Nocturnal. My mistake. Yes, benefic I in Noct stance is in fact your most efficient spell. I also had to double check and I realized benefic is 354 instead of the 394 I thought it was. You're right N. Benefic > D. A_Bene for mana efficiency (pre-Time Dilation).

[Ballooooon]

So it turns out the astrologian's most mana efficient single target heal is nocturnal benefic I unless you consider a time dilated aspected benefic in diurnal stance. I thought "hey, maybe nocturnal is actually the better stance due to that!"

However, after watching the Alexander savage floor 1 clear by Yoshiyuki Ly, I find that the big difference in aoe healing efficiency between the two stances means diurnal is the more mana efficient stance.

Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkTySAHDI4

The astrologian was in diurnal stance

57 benefic I used
33 benefic II used
2 helios used
8 aspected helios used

I wasn't completely thorough as I didn't count all the diurnal aspected benefics but they are very close in mana efficiency to nocturnal benefic I and time dilation makes them better so I decided they would not change the results very much. Benefic counts could be off by like 1 or 2 but I tried my best.

Anyways, it turns out that by choosing diurnal for this fight, Yoshiyuki Ly saved about 4,912 mana.

Despite benefic I and benefic II being more mana efficient in nocturnal stance, the strength of diurnal aspected helios meant that a nocturnal astrologian would've had to throw out 9 extra aoe spells (which would be helios since it is more mana efficient than nocturnal aspected helios) to reach the same amount of healing done by diurnal's 8 aspected helios.

That is, nocturnal would have to use about 17 helios to equal 8 diurnal aspected helios. This kills the mana and is the reason why diurnal saved mana in the video despite nocturnal having more efficient benefics.

Did some more math surrounding the fight and came up with this: in the fight in the video, nocturnal stance would have been more mana efficient (better?) only if the fight required fewer than 4 diurnal aspected helios. All in all, if you need even a moderate amount of aoe healing, go diurnal.

[Apeiron]

-snip-

Thanks for looking into this and posting something. Do you know if there's a SCH POV?

[Ballooooon]

Unfortunately I don't think there's a scholar POV for that run.

Unless you mean any scholar POV in which I case I know of Lucrezia's world first video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWlViWbK4GU

[Apeiron]

Meant for that run, but it's alright. Thanks for the Lucrezia vid as well.

[LycorisSelunis]

But on his A2 clear that same ast was using Noct sect with his scholar partner, interesting no?

[Vlady]

Sometimes a instant cast shields can do more for survival then people give thought about.the only true time the astrologian can shine is with precision coordination with the raid that Sally goes above and beyond the call of duty.

II'm tired of people blaming those who main an astrologian as holding the raid back.If you go by that logic then all play station users hold raid back because they are not on a pc.

[Apeiron]

But on his A2 clear that same ast was using Noct sect with his scholar partner, interesting no?

Definitely. I don't think the claim has been made in this thread that a Nocturnast can't complete content, only that it's not optimal -- especially when paired with a SCH. So far the claims have just been for Diurnast's MP efficiency and rolling HoT over the more potent healing spells. Likely more people have problems trying to mesh the playstyle of a Nocturnast without stepping on their SCH toes (which honestly shouldn't be too hard, just avoid 2 spells).

Sometimes a instant cast shields can do more for survival then people give thought about.the only true time the astrologian can shine is with precision coordination with the raid that Sally goes above and beyond the call of duty.

II'm tired of people blaming those who main an astrologian as holding the raid back.If you go by that logic then all play station users hold raid back because they are not on a pc.

Eeeh. Seems like a slippery slope argument with that one. Like, if you're talking about optimization, I get what you mean, but the limitations of a class vs difference in a gaming console isn't a good example to use.

[Vlady]

Eeeh. Seems like a slippery slope argument with that one. Like, if you're talking about optimization, I get what you mean, but the limitations of a class vs difference in a gaming console isn't a good example to use.

You claim that astrologians cannot compete on terms of throughput of white mage healing when the healing without considering cooldowns is around 4%. It is the mana efficiency that catches up with the astrologian so healing is a non factor. Noc and Duirnal are fine. The nerf to letting astro's swap stances with a cooldown in combat was what hit us with a ton of bricks at release of Heavensward.

[WingsOfAzrael]

Sometimes a instant cast shields can do more for survival then people give thought about.the only true time the astrologian can shine is with precision coordination with the raid that Sally goes above and beyond the call of duty.

II'm tired of people blaming those who main an astrologian as holding the raid back.If you go by that logic then all play station users hold raid back because they are not on a pc.

More than half the time they are right, asts can't keep up with healing on par with whm or sch. The fact is they have slightly lower healing potency.
Nocturnal stance costs more mp and the shields are crap compared to scholars.
Shields have weaker potency, regen is the same as whm but whm has more oh shit buttons, pom & ds. Cards do not make up for that.

I'm sorry what does playing on a pc have to do with anything?