AST Sect Theory

[Apeiron]

7 full pages of people telling you it's a bad idea. Still not giving up? Nobody wants to have their shields erased by another. It sucks.

It's not about shields.

[Ninimo_Babamo]

At this point, you're only reading what you want to read. How's this. Once you get your AST to 60, get it a bit geared, and get into Alexander, try using your shields over a more powerful shield from a SCH. See how incredibly pissed off they get. HoTs with HoTs, great. Shields with shields, terrible. Can this threat just die already?

[Richiealvian]

At this point, you're only reading what you want to read. How's this. Once you get your AST to 60, get it a bit geared, and get into Alexander, try using your shields over a more powerful shield from a SCH. See how incredibly pissed off they get. HoTs with HoTs, great. Shields with shields, terrible. Can this threat just die already?

IMO you're not supposed to be "actively" shielding like SCHs. During Noct, what you make up for your SCH partner is that massive Benefic II. Yes, it's stronger than a cure II and it's something a scholar can appreciate. The noct shield is for stuff like OH SHIT I FORGOT from my personal experience.

[Ninimo_Babamo]

7 full pages of people telling you it's a bad idea. Still not giving up? Nobody wants to have their shields erased by another. It sucks.

[Zholi]

Uh... the HoTs from Diurnal are going to easily outpace the 5% healing boost from Noct. You know what's more potent than that "massive" Benefic II? Benefic II plus one single bloody HoT tick. Jesus Christ.

[Cynfael]

Thing is, your SCH partner doesn't give a crap about the +5% potency Benefic II cast out of Nocturnal. A 5% bonus to healing spells isn't nearly as strong a contribution as bringing on-demand HoT effects with Diurnal while still being able to use the base kit without the tiny, tacked-on potency buff.

Again, if you're not bringing Noct to cast shields, you aren't bringing it at all.

[Apeiron]

Uh... the HoTs from Diurnal are going to easily outpace the 5% healing boost from Noct. You know what's more potent than that "massive" Benefic II? Benefic II plus one single bloody HoT tick. Jesus Christ.

When the ticks from the HoT are barely, if even actually healing the auto-attacks from boss mechanics, they're not outpacing anything. I've stated it before, but to get the full potential out of the HoT you'd have to let them go all the way through, and in-between you're spamming your other healing spells to make up for any other damage. When a SCH can drop Succor for better shields just as frequently as an AST could drop Aspected Helios, but doesn't have to worry about MP managment, and the AST can instead use fewer healing spells to keep up with mitigated damage. In the same time it takes a Diurnast to cast A. Benefic, Tick, Benefic II; a Nocturnast has cast Benefic II and followed up with Benefic.

Doing this, as stated by others, front loads your healing. Doing this on my AST in Diurnal I got an average of ~3734 by casting A.B, then Benefic II, and allowing for the initial tick as well as a follow-up, as that would be thereabouts when a Noctast would have completed their casting. Meanwhile, the Noctast cast only Benefic II and Benefic and came out with ~4223 -- a difference of 1.13 Sure, the HoT will continue to tick, but they're more than likely going to be negated or mitigated by incoming damage.

If you allow for more healing with the Diurnast, you would also have to allow for more healing from the Noctast, hence why I didn't wait further for the ticks or use any further spells.

Thing is, your SCH partner doesn't give a crap about the +5% potency Benefic II cast out of Nocturnal. A 5% bonus to healing spells isn't nearly as strong a contribution as bringing on-demand HoT effects with Diurnal while still being able to use the base kit without the tiny, tacked-on potency buff.

Again, if you're not bringing Noct to cast shields, you aren't bringing it at all.

It's not really that on-demand, though, is it? Once a HoT is set, you can't really recast over it because doing so is clipping, and you're not healing efficiently then. Sure you can stack A. Benefic and A. Helios, but doing so runs into the same problem as the above scenario where you still have to wait on GCD before you can use the next spell, and by then the Noctast has cast cast fewer spells to get more returns.

[Cynfael]

The Diurnal AST will always cast fewer spells for more returns if they do it right. The HoT ticks are what help you follow with a Benefic I rather than II, for example. And yes, being able to apply your HoT whenever you want to = on-demand. Contrast with SCH's only HoT, which is tied to a 60 second CD and a specific fairy.

I think you severely underestimate the usefulness of HoTs because you only perceive them as tacked-on overhealing rather than as a key component in your healing strategy.

[Apeiron]

The Diurnal AST will always cast fewer spells for more returns if they do it right. The HoT ticks are what help you follow with a Benefic I rather than II, for example.

I think you severely underestimate the usefulness of HoTs because you only perceive them as tacked-on overhealing rather than as a key component in your healing strategy.

I don't consider them tacked on any more than the WHM's HoT. Even with the ticks being followed by a Benefic I, they still do not match a Benefic I from Nocturast because the Noctast starts off with Benefic I, and not A. Benefic.

[Aurum]

Here's some data for you:
-Ilvl 181 AST with i180 Law wep
In Diurnal, my A. Benefic heals for 1200 initially followed by 6 ticks of 700 hp per, for a total of 5500 healing
Also in diurnal, my Benefic 1 heals for 2550 hp on average.
Casting A. Benefic once and Benefic 1 for each tick of the hot after (that's 6 casts) that nets me a total hp healed of 20700

In Nocturnal, my Benefic II heals for 4500 and my Benefic 1 heals for 2700.
Following the same pattern as above, if I cast Benefic II and then Benefic 1 six times afterwards I end up with a total hp healed of... 20700

Something to consider though... this assumes these spells will be cast at a 1:6 ratio. If however, you cast fewer benefics per Benefic II/Diurnal A benefic, the more Diurnal sect becomes more efficient than Nocturnal. On the flipside, the more Benefics you cast per Benefic II/Diurnal A benefic, the more potent Nocturnal becomes.