AST Sect Theory

[GideonHighmourn]

If the HoT doesn't place the party in a better state with incoming damage like the fairy or WHM HoT does, that's not bonus healing.

Your choice to ignore HoT healing/rolling from A. Benefic and A. Helios doesn't make it nonexistent; however, you refusal to acknowledge the benefit of rolling HoTs in exchange for +5% healing on three heals is ironic.

[AmiraHargal]

Probably already repeated this twice in other AST threads(there're so many of them XD), but how would you feel if Time Dilation effect in Nocturnal Sect is changed to 50% potency increase in existing buff(including shield, so 2000 damage shield from aspected benefic become 3000 damage shield after time dilation is applied) instead of current 15s increase in duration(which will still be used during diurnal)?(basically giving Enhanced buff effect instead of Extend buff like it is currently). Do you guys think that will improve Nocturnal Sect by a lot?

[Zholi]

Probably already repeated this twice in other AST threads(there're so many of them XD), but how would you feel if Time Dilation effect in Nocturnal Sect is changed to 50% potency increase in existing buff(including shield, so 2000 damage shield from aspected benefic become 3000 damage shield after time dilation is applied) instead of current 15s increase in duration(which will still be used during diurnal)?(basically giving Enhanced buff effect instead of Extend buff like it is currently). Do you guys think that will improve Nocturnal Sect by a lot?

No. Extending regen is more like a side effect of the CD, not the main reason you use it. The fact that extending shields provides no benefit is not the reason Nocturnal Sect sucks. And the CD is too long to even care about buffing shields with it.

[AmiraHargal]

Yes, it's the side effect, but with that time dilation effect, AST now have reliable mitigation against tankbuster move comparable to SCH. Also, since the buff will also apply to card buff, think of the best case scenario the mitigation will result from it(15%/22.5% reduction from bole + 150% shield from aspected benefic).

You are right about the long CD(more reason to use Spear on yourself!), but SCH double shield effect also happen randomly(crit) and can last as long without any crit from the mitigation, or is AST's Aspected Benefic base heal is that much weaker compared to SCH's Adlo?

If you're talking about lower healing throughput compared to Diurnal, than yes, overall healing throughput might still be weaker than Diurnal, but so is SCH's compared to WHM's, but SCH still have utility due to mitigation, which Nocturnal Sect is all about. Care to explain further why you think this won't improve much aside from the long CD?

Also, with time dilation changed, Celestial Opposition's effect should be changed to follow it in Nocturnal, which means stronger "Succor", another strong point of Nocturnal Sect compared to SCH(which still have loads of other utility such as 3 Lustrates, instant AOE, better MP management, etc.) albeit on a really long cooldown(2.5 min, which IMO should be rebalanced)

[Zholi]

Shields are pretty ephemeral buffs, and trying to buff a buff that in many situations can disappear in an instant is awfully fidgety. You get to blow a CD for the privilege of still having worse shields than SCH. You should only ever use time dilation on card buffs. Using it on the tank for a regen or shield is a complete waste. Yes, the tank may have a card buff, but you really want to avoid giving the tank cards the vast majority of the time, so this should be a very rare occurrence. And you still lack the passive healing ability every other healer has (WHM and Diurnal AST with regen, SCH with fairy).

[Apeiron]

Your choice to ignore HoT healing/rolling from A. Benefic and A. Helios doesn't make it nonexistent; however, you refusal to acknowledge the benefit of rolling HoTs in exchange for +5% healing on three heals is ironic.

I'm not ignoring it, or say it doesn't exist, I'm saying to get the most out of regens, they have to do a few things:
1) heal more than incoming damage to be an actual benefit, otherwise they're a lesser mitigation that can be replaced by shields, and you or your co-healer are forced to spam more healing spells to make up the difference than should be necessary.
2) not be used on a party member whose health is already topped off, if you have this scenario then your regens aren't being used and you have ticks being wasted. Again this doesn't necessarily hurt the party, but it doesn't benefit them either, and shouldn't be counted towards overall healing. Your party members don't need the healing at that point.

A. Benefic only gives you the full 790 potency overall per single target when it's allowed to function without damage ruining it because of shields, long pauses between damage, or in tandem with other (stronger) regens. When incoming damage is greater than each individual tick, it doesn't really help, and you have to use your benefic and benefic II just to ensure your party's HP doesn't go in the red. And that's not taking into account spike damage, or damage someone ate because they missed a cue.

In the time it takes to let A. Benefic work, how many other spells can you use from Noct Sect to get your party back up, while letting the fairy's regen do their thing for a greater bonus towards efficiency

In nocturnal your 2 benefics are a greater potency than your A. Benefic and bring people up quicker, allowing it to be more reliable. If we compare the two sects you should be using less resources to handle damage in nocturnal than in diurnal because you don't have to stack multiple regens to get a benefit out of your own regens. In nearly half the time with benefic alone, you can heal a greater amount per single target and have it cost less MP. In a scenario where AoE healing needs to be done, the cost is split between three healers. 1 that provides heals + shields (SCH), 1 that provides AoE healing, and 1 that provides healing and a HoT at the cost of a CD (Eos). Further divide the effort needed to bring each individual up with basic spells and allow for tricks like Synastry on tanks for half potency while the fairy does the rest, the SCH picks up whatever quick heals need to be done.

In the same scenario paired with a SCH, and AST in diurnal, you have 1 for heals + shields, 1 for 2 AoE healing HoT (and not very many per single target without it becoming MP taxing) and 1 for HoT with the same division of work and tricks, and you have your party using more resources to make up for the weak HoT you're stacking just to squeeze out a benefit.

From experience, you all know the regen stack to work and you claim it's easy, or the best, but then what's happening that when we stack Noct AST + SCH that makes it so difficult that no one even wants to be bothered with trying to make it work? It's not the lack of two skills when the AST kit still allows them to do plenty of other things when they're not required to shield.

[Cynfael]

I'm not sure which part is unclear when we discuss Diurnal healing vs. Nocturnal healing.

Regen effects allow you to heal more efficiently in any situation where you can allow the HoT to tick (which is frequently). Nocturnal's burst heal is technically more efficient since you spend the same MP for slightly greater upfront potency, but if you aren't allowing your HoTs to work for you in Diurnal, you're missing the advantage completely. Accounting for regen ticks can make the difference between needing to follow up with Benefic vs. Benefic II or even burning an ED.

There's absolutely no reason to run Noct with SCH when Diurnal allows you to set-and-forget healing to help free up both healers and decrease MP consumption for basic maintenance healing. Part of using regens effectively is knowing when to apply them and when you can trust them to work for you.

[Ballooooon]

So uhhhh maybe I'm just bad at math but isn't nocturnal stance more mp efficient at single target healing than diurnal? Assuming the wiki numbers are correct nocturnal benefic is more mana efficient than diurnal aspected benefic even (1.13 potency per mana vs 1.117). Spamming nocturnal benefic is the most efficient single target healing astrologian can do it seems, and you don't even have to wait for healing over time.

Diurnal looks to be better for aoe healing tho as aspected helios is about 0.48 potency per mana while nocturnal's most efficient aoe heal, helios, is at 0.28.

I'm new at this and not a math person however so please critique.

Edit: you can extend the length of the heals over time tho, maybe that makes diurnal better at single target too hmm

[MidnightTundra]

snip

Your most mana efficient cure is Noct. Bene then D. A_Bene followed by Bene

Noct. A_Benefic: 525POT/707MP = 0.74 potency per mana

Dirunal. A_Benefic: 790POT/707MP = 1.12 potency per mana

Benefic II is more mana efficient than Noct. A_Benefic

Noct BeneficII: 651/792 = 0.82 PPM

BeneficII: 620/792 = 0.78 PPM

[Ballooooon]

But your analysis is missing nocturnal benefic I. That's the most efficient spell I was talking about.