Done with AST

[Vlady]

Yes being consistent is the key. Astrologian needs one thing really and that is the ability to move between noc and duirnal stance in combat through some method. Noc is the answer for Astrologian's ability to keep up with white mage for emergency situations. And you left out synastry along with being able to buff our own regens an extra 30% on the tank along with also ES would most likely be up again by the time you use up your other cooldowns.

If by then shit is still hitting the fan then all of these worst case scenarios would spell a wipe then you need to look at other factors. Yes I am aware you are trying to set me up in a corner to claim that bringing out a white mage would be factor but in a worse case scenario emergency healing should not happen more then 3 times a minute at most and Astrologian can cover that as well as a white mage can. And more precisely an astrologian would do well to be in nocturnal stance to support emergency situations over trying to be a slightly weaker white mage if you are using a white/astro combo.

[Rahaya]

Maybe there something I'm not getting/doing that makes me really say "AST can do this better than my SCH".

Then argue the points. Why you main it or not is irrelevant, no?

I started this discussion remarking on how people seem to expect AST to be the 'winner' over X class. That's not how the new jobs work. MCH has 1 situation where it is 'stronger' than BRD. It has a physical resist debuff. Aside from that, very similar. DRK has equivalent abilities to the other tanks, ekes out (maybe) at taking magic damage and 50-100 more personal DPS than PLD. That's it. Both WHM and SCH were homogenized in Heavensward. WHM got more oGCD healing tools, SCH got better AOE healing capabilities and another healing steroid.

AST is the only healer that can pitch in with MP/TP giving, and the option of swapping between Sects. What do you expect it to do better than your SCH, might I ask?

[Assirra]

Then argue the points. Why you main it or not is irrelevant, no?

I started this discussion remarking on how people seem to expect AST to be the 'winner' over X class. That's not how the new jobs work. MCH has 1 situation where it is 'stronger' than BRD. It has a physical resist debuff. Aside from that, very similar. DRK has equivalent abilities to the other tanks, ekes out (maybe) at taking magic damage and 50-100 more personal DPS than PLD. That's it. Both WHM and SCH were homogenized in Heavensward. WHM got more oGCD healing tools, SCH got better AOE healing capabilities and another healing steroid.

AST is the only healer that can pitch in with MP/TP giving, and the option of swapping between Sects. What do you expect it to do better than your SCH, might I ask?

The problem is that those cards do not nearly enough to make up for the lack of actual healing abilities. Remember we are a healer first and formost, the rest is flair.
All of those sect abilities are basically a nerfed version of the spells they were build on, be it WHM healing over time or scholar shields. Not to mention that you cannot switch sect mid people which could potentially make up for it.

Also, you seem to be really taking this "take AST over" argument really weird. When people say that they ask why you would ever take an AST? What is their unique specialty compared to other healers, the thing that makes them stand out as a healer.
All we got are cards which simply do not make up for the lack of actual healing abilities.
Most AST want to be equal to the other healers, not inferior or superior.

[YuiSasaki]

Can we all stop talking about Savage and get to the OP's point? OP is not anywhere near Savage if he can't heal regular level 60 dungeons (and going by how many "likes" his post got, a lot of other AST's are in the same situation).

AST has no problems with Neverreap, Fractal, or Alex Normal. I haven't done Bis Ex yet. Let's just all acknowledge that for that content, healing is fine (even in big pulls), mana is fine, buffs and dps are fine. I'm sure WHM/SCH is probably easier, but it's not difficult doing that stuff on AST and yes I run DF all day so I've seen all sorts of groups.

We all agree the class could use some work for harder content but the above stuff that OP seems to be discussing, and that most AST's are doing right now, is really not hard. Any AST that is having difficulty with that stuff just needs to improve a bit.

Yes, apparently people tend to get off-topic if it concerns AST :X.

On a side note BIS Ex is also clearable with AST w/o issues (concerning mana, healing, dps etc.)

If I'd summarize most of the last posts it's probably like this:

- most of us agree AST still needs some buffs
- most of us also agree that AST is capable of clearing content (let's keep Alex Savage out of this for now)
- most of us think that AST is fun, yet still weaker than WHM/SCH

So, all we got to do is wait for the future and how SE wants to "balance" AST after they get their results from observing AlexSavage X:

[silverhope]

I see everyone knocking Noct stance.. And here I am in love with it. I use Noct for most of Alex normal and the trys we put on faust we got the farthest while I was in Noct.

A1 I can keep Aspected Helios on everyone and the AOE does nothing to anyone this lets the other healer dps pretty much till the second add pops up. Aspected Helios + Bubble shield on the dive part is amazing as well and they again take no dmg.

A2 I am able to buff everyone and keep a aoe shield up without pulling aggro on everything. (medica II and Aspected helios Der pull so much aggro)

A3 is a toss up I like Noct but Dern takes the cake for this fight as well as A4

I think Astro could use a buff to Benefic potency so I can cast it more than Benefic II this would help with alot of mp issues. I have no issues in any experts or alex norm. I love the class and hope we can get savage done with me on astro as well. Again alittle buff would be nice to save some MP!

[Dortharl]

I've seen a lot of threads about Ast and while some people are bashing them others say they are fine. I guess it's for SE to decide if it's just whining and some people need to learn the class or if the complaints are justified. When I queue for a dungeon I always hope that the healer is either a whm or a sch not because I think it will be a wipe with an Ast but because with the other 2 healers I know the run will be smoother. I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

I just don't think the buffs they provide make up for the lack of healing,

[SpiralGalaxy]

I've done well as an Astrologian in the new content (dungeons, not raids and primals) overall - the one place the class seems to suffer most is high burst when the party is taking a lot of AoE.

But...I will agree with Dortharl, based on my own experience, that my old main (SCH) which I'm now leveling instead to 60 just feels a lot more comfortable to heal with. I'm not a theorycrafter but to say as a SCH, fights don't drain my HP as much, I have more time to DPS, and I feel I have more direct healing burst tools that pack a punch. This is a terrible shame, because I really love the concept and mechanics of the AST.

The one place in the new content I thought the class shone was in Neverreap on the last boss - Lightspeed has done a lot in that fight that I don't think my SCH could have done as easily. But until AST becomes more dependable, SCH will be my main healer. I have faith that AST will get more tweaks in time...when it does, it'll be my main again.

[Leiloni]

I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

Honestly the AST's you're getting in Fractal are bad and the MCH/BRD's your getting are also bad. I've cleared it numerous times on my AST with no problem and I've also cleared it with a DF Bard in my group in 70% HQ quest whites, including his weapon. So it's really not a hard dungeon for decent players.

Or, to be fair to those AST's, it's also possible that you're bad. :\

But either way, the group comp is not an issue as it's been my experience that any group of capable players can clear that without issue.

But Fractal first boss is a really easy fight. The only thing you should be taking any real damage from is I think it's called Rapid Sever? It's casted though and usually two back to back, so both the tank and healer should have plenty of time to prepare CD's and pre-cast a heal. And throwing in Disable when it's up on those is helpful as well. Last boss is more on the dps than anything else. There's nothing really out of the ordinary as far as tank damage. People just need to make sure they're moving out of the various things, debuffs are being cleansed, and other than that it's basic healing. If people get hit by bombs, or adds don't die quickly, things can get hairy and the healer will need to be on their toes, yes. But if the dps/tank do their part it should not be a hard fight for the healer.

[Rahaya]

Also, you seem to be really taking this "take AST over" argument really weird. When people say that they ask why you would ever take an AST? What is their unique specialty compared to other healers, the thing that makes them stand out as a healer.
All we got are cards which simply do not make up for the lack of actual healing abilities.
Most AST want to be equal to the other healers, not inferior or superior.

And I have said, AST is not perfect. I've proposed a change to make Celestial Opp a healing CD because we are healers and criticized Nocturnal. So we get a few more healing CDs. Say Nocturnal is basically the same but with the same gimmicks as the SCH shields (same potency, and double shield when crit). Collective Unconsious does something and we can move. Celestial Opposition isn't terrible.

Where is the impetus to bring an AST over WHM or SCH still? I feel like we'd still be seeing Selene napkin math comparisons and RNG complaints.

[Dortharl]

Snip

Let me clarify there's no problem having 1 mch or brd in the group, the only time I would worry is when there were two or one of each. As to me or those Ast being bad I think it's too easy to say just because I can do it everyone must suck. I didn't say that we wiped just that I almost died a lot and those Asts were working hard. Also I think it's naive to assume that all the Asts were bad and all the whms and Schs were good as an explanation for my experience. I could be wrong my experiences Healing are limited.