Done with AST

[Dortharl]

I've seen a lot of threads about Ast and while some people are bashing them others say they are fine. I guess it's for SE to decide if it's just whining and some people need to learn the class or if the complaints are justified. When I queue for a dungeon I always hope that the healer is either a whm or a sch not because I think it will be a wipe with an Ast but because with the other 2 healers I know the run will be smoother. I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

I just don't think the buffs they provide make up for the lack of healing,

[SpiralGalaxy]

I've done well as an Astrologian in the new content (dungeons, not raids and primals) overall - the one place the class seems to suffer most is high burst when the party is taking a lot of AoE.

But...I will agree with Dortharl, based on my own experience, that my old main (SCH) which I'm now leveling instead to 60 just feels a lot more comfortable to heal with. I'm not a theorycrafter but to say as a SCH, fights don't drain my HP as much, I have more time to DPS, and I feel I have more direct healing burst tools that pack a punch. This is a terrible shame, because I really love the concept and mechanics of the AST.

The one place in the new content I thought the class shone was in Neverreap on the last boss - Lightspeed has done a lot in that fight that I don't think my SCH could have done as easily. But until AST becomes more dependable, SCH will be my main healer. I have faith that AST will get more tweaks in time...when it does, it'll be my main again.

[Leiloni]

I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

Honestly the AST's you're getting in Fractal are bad and the MCH/BRD's your getting are also bad. I've cleared it numerous times on my AST with no problem and I've also cleared it with a DF Bard in my group in 70% HQ quest whites, including his weapon. So it's really not a hard dungeon for decent players.

Or, to be fair to those AST's, it's also possible that you're bad. :\

But either way, the group comp is not an issue as it's been my experience that any group of capable players can clear that without issue.

But Fractal first boss is a really easy fight. The only thing you should be taking any real damage from is I think it's called Rapid Sever? It's casted though and usually two back to back, so both the tank and healer should have plenty of time to prepare CD's and pre-cast a heal. And throwing in Disable when it's up on those is helpful as well. Last boss is more on the dps than anything else. There's nothing really out of the ordinary as far as tank damage. People just need to make sure they're moving out of the various things, debuffs are being cleansed, and other than that it's basic healing. If people get hit by bombs, or adds don't die quickly, things can get hairy and the healer will need to be on their toes, yes. But if the dps/tank do their part it should not be a hard fight for the healer.

[Dortharl]

Snip

Let me clarify there's no problem having 1 mch or brd in the group, the only time I would worry is when there were two or one of each. As to me or those Ast being bad I think it's too easy to say just because I can do it everyone must suck. I didn't say that we wiped just that I almost died a lot and those Asts were working hard. Also I think it's naive to assume that all the Asts were bad and all the whms and Schs were good as an explanation for my experience. I could be wrong my experiences Healing are limited.

[Leiloni]

Let me clarify there's no problem having 1 mch or brd in the group, the only time I would worry is when there were two or one of each. As to me or those Ast being bad I think it's too easy to say just because I can do it everyone must suck. I didn't say that we wiped just that I almost died a lot and those Asts were working hard. Also I think it's naive to assume that all the Asts were bad and all the whms and Schs were good as an explanation for my experience. I could be wrong my experiences Healing are limited.

I'm just trying to counter your statement that you think AST's as a class are bad and every run you have with them is bad. It's not a bad or incapable class. It's perfectly capable of doing that dungeon with ease with a variety of players and classes. The outcome is dependent on the player behind the class at that point. So either you have gotten a lot of bad players in your groups, or you are just the one lacking. Either way, the class itself is fine.

As for BRD and MCH, I've had both and it's been fine. The run is a bit slower but it's not some sort of disaster with people dying all over. I don't dread having any combination of dps in my groups, or any tank for that matter. I've seen people on SMN and BLM that are awful when those are two classes that should be doing great dps. So it really doesn't matter.

[Dortharl]

Snip

As I said in my initial post I believe it's up to SE to decide if this a case of learn to play as you are clearly convinced it is, or if adjustments are required.

Also you seem to adding a sense of hyperbole to my post which I didn't initially intend, I don't believe Ast is a bad class, neither do I believe a run is impossible with 2 brd or mch and I don't think I ever said it was. I related my personal experience which was not a disaster with people dying all over it was more difficult which I said it was.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Honestly the AST's you're getting in Fractal are bad and the MCH/BRD's your getting are also bad. I've cleared it numerous times on my AST with no problem and I've also cleared it with a DF Bard in my group in 70% HQ quest whites, including his weapon. So it's really not a hard dungeon for decent players.

Or, to be fair to those AST's, it's also possible that you're bad. :\

Hehe, DPS messing up and dying means it's the healer's fault 99% of the time for some people.

I wouldn't call the AST bad. I've saved runs on my AST, runs that went bad not because of me but because of the others. I'm mainly talking about the last boss of Fractal. What a horrible nightmare. After 2 wipes because the ninja wasn't helping the BRD to kill adds, the tank (don't know how) eating up the mines and whatever else they were doing that made me have to heal those 2 individuals more than usual (The BRD was the only one I trusted lol), the tank got one shotted and I thought "Here comes 3rd Wipe", I was like "NOPE NOPE". The boss went after me, I tanked it for a few, cure bombing myself until Swift was up, then raised the tank and victory ensured afterwards. I was lucky enough that I had used LA earlier so I had sufficient MP to afford a raise, curing myself and then keep on with the last 30% of the fight.
Of course when a DPS dies it's easier to blame the healer =.=; specially an AST, because they know that they don't have to put as much effort with a WHM/SCH since they will be there to cure through their mistakes.

I always get commendations on AST, I've saved runs, I've healed "I'm too cool for protect, gonna pull a huge pack of mobs without it" paper tanks without letting them die, I've done speedruns fine. That is not the point though. The point is it would've been less stressful for *me* had I gone WHM. That way I know that if people mess up (and they most probably will in DF >_>), there's higher chances to avoid a wipe. Whereas on AST, even if being able to heal "fine", will just give me huge headaches. I am sure it is the same with SCH, less stressful on that job that on AST. That's when you can clearly see the imbalances. Yes, it can BE done and you will only notice the struggle when people keep messing up everytime. Basically it feels like AST is missing level 50 to 60 abilities that would help it sustain. It's like if you went in with a lvl 50 WHM without all their 50-60 abilities (though... the monster divine seal and regen would probably be enough lol).

And that's just dungeons, don't get me started on Savage again... ._. yeaaaaahh, if everyone in my party played at their best, I could probably do it as AST, but that's not happening anytime soon. I'm stuck on WHM for the time being. =( I decided to make the change, not my static, but they would've probably told me at one point anyways. Remember what I said about curing through the mistakes? ...Yeah. Less stressful on WHM, I only do it for my health and sanity!