Done with AST

[Rahaya]

If the AST doesn't have a clear strength, there's no need to bring it.

SCH + AST is the top party buffing combination for DPS. A2 clear with AST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfPcG43yrA for example. If your party composition is not optimal for Selene (*cough* SMN *cough*) and it runs up your TP bill, or you'd much rather time DPS buffs for burst phases rather than a passive haste, AST works better. It's the only healer that can grant TP/MP. Synastry is amazeballs. Single target AST DPS isn't too shabby. Perhaps the WHM isn't god tier and can't shoulder all of the healing burden. AST would be contributing DPS anyway, where my SCH would be babysitting.

How about, it's fun?

AST is not perfect right now, but a lot of the complaints about it that I've seen are a bit off base.

I don't think it needs to bring something OVER either of the other two - different and comparable would be fine, but at the moment we lack noticeable comparability unique or otherwise. I'd like to see another emergency heal for one thing.

You should see a large number of the proposed buffing threads =P Celestial Opposition is pretty terrible for the CD, I honestly think that should have a healing component attached and not the stun, with a slight CD reduction to 120 sec. The biggest problem with Nocturnal Sect, in my opinion, is that it copies all the skills SCH doesn't use right now. Why on earth would I Succor? That shield gets cannibalized into an heal. I can't Shadowflare and Sacred Soil, if this was FCOB then Collective Nocturnal would make sense, but it isn't. There's nothing to Sacred Soil in Alexander right now. About the only thing that sees some use is Adlo, which just makes me go =/ all the times it doesn't crit and gets knocked off by the first attack and Nocturnal doesn't even shield for that base amount. (costs less mana tho. Yay?)

[MidnightTundra]

SCH + AST is the top party buffing combination for DPS. A2 clear with AST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWfPcG43yrA for example. If your party composition is not optimal for Selene (*cough* SMN *cough*) and it runs up your TP bill, or you'd much rather time DPS buffs for burst phases rather than a passive haste, AST works better. It's the only healer that can grant TP/MP. Synastry is amazeballs. Single target AST DPS isn't too shabby. Perhaps the WHM isn't god tier and can't shoulder all of the healing burden. AST would be contributing DPS anyway, where my SCH would be babysitting.

How about, it's fun?

AST is not perfect right now, but a lot of the complaints about it that I've seen are a bit off base.

You completely missed my reason maining AST. I play it because it's fun and I'll probably still play it because, well, it is fun. I'm not changing my main either.

Both times the AST used Synastry in the video, a WHM could just throw up Assize between them and passively regen them both. They were stacked closely together.

RNG is still RNG. I've had plenty of times where my cards don't line up for a burst phase where as I can just time or save Fey Wind when the burst phase shows itself.

My highest AST parses are 811 for 2 min (lucky rolls with damage buffs) and 760 for 3:11 on a dummy. I know all about their single target damage. WHM still destroys them and SCH edges ahead slightly because oGCD nukes. AST AoE damage is the worst by far for how much mana I am expending.

What if the AST isn't god-tier (if we're taking player skill into account)? That's more healing I have to do on SCH because they naturally can't keep up where as the WHM naturally restores more HP aka more time for me to DPS as SCH.

Keep in mind, if AST was completely useless like people claim on this forum, I wouldn't play it. I noted it's strengths that immediately stand out to me.

[Rahaya]

Keep in mind, if AST was completely useless like people claim on this forum, I wouldn't play it. I noted it's strengths that immediately stand out to me.

You asked what does AST bring to the raid. I'm answering that? I'm not arguing with you why or why not you are playing AST. Why ask if you already know?

And there is where 'people expect AST to do something *over* another class.' If both classes can keep the tanks up, then great! Whether or not WHM or SCH can do something too isn't a mark against AST. Healing is it's job. I will point out, the WHM wouldn't have been buffing party DPS at the same time, which was the point of why I posted the video in the first place? DPS buffing comp.

We do have Spread. Maybe I've just been ridiculously lucky this entire time, but I don't find burst phase planning at all difficult. That probably skews my opinion there.

WHM DPS is restricted by accuracy. Same as Energy Drain/Broil and Malefic II, but accuracy is definitely of far greater concern for WHM DPS than the other two.

I'm taking party composition into account, of which planning around your co-healer is a big part. Can I deal with my Prey target, help with AOE healing *and* heal both tanks? Doing that on my SCH was an exercise in frustration and no amount of 'naturally healing more' would have allowed me to DPS. My AST felt a lot smoother and I still had my cards.

[MidnightTundra]

snip

But I am arguing your points though and whether I agree with them or not. I read the forums sometimes and I really want people to really convince me/others why they think it's on par with the other healer's kits. Rarely do I meet people who don't complain about how terribly useless the class is. Maybe there something I'm not getting/doing that makes me really say "AST can do this better than my SCH". In other words, I'm looking to be enlightened. I'm not having a hard time with the class at all.

I've had phases during Ravana and Bismark where my expanded buff hasn't lined up with either balance or arrow for a burn phase. It isn't difficult but RNG is RNG.

WHM DPS is indeed restricted by accuracy but their hit rate isn't as low as people exaggerate. You can look at the parses of WHMs compared to SCH from Elysium and Lucrezia. They still output a wealthy amount of DPS.

I can't actually comment on the last line (assuming you're speaking of A1S) due to not having a raid group (I don't like the scheduling). So I guess I'll take your word for it.

[Rahaya]

Maybe there something I'm not getting/doing that makes me really say "AST can do this better than my SCH".

Then argue the points. Why you main it or not is irrelevant, no?

I started this discussion remarking on how people seem to expect AST to be the 'winner' over X class. That's not how the new jobs work. MCH has 1 situation where it is 'stronger' than BRD. It has a physical resist debuff. Aside from that, very similar. DRK has equivalent abilities to the other tanks, ekes out (maybe) at taking magic damage and 50-100 more personal DPS than PLD. That's it. Both WHM and SCH were homogenized in Heavensward. WHM got more oGCD healing tools, SCH got better AOE healing capabilities and another healing steroid.

AST is the only healer that can pitch in with MP/TP giving, and the option of swapping between Sects. What do you expect it to do better than your SCH, might I ask?

[Assirra]

Then argue the points. Why you main it or not is irrelevant, no?

I started this discussion remarking on how people seem to expect AST to be the 'winner' over X class. That's not how the new jobs work. MCH has 1 situation where it is 'stronger' than BRD. It has a physical resist debuff. Aside from that, very similar. DRK has equivalent abilities to the other tanks, ekes out (maybe) at taking magic damage and 50-100 more personal DPS than PLD. That's it. Both WHM and SCH were homogenized in Heavensward. WHM got more oGCD healing tools, SCH got better AOE healing capabilities and another healing steroid.

AST is the only healer that can pitch in with MP/TP giving, and the option of swapping between Sects. What do you expect it to do better than your SCH, might I ask?

The problem is that those cards do not nearly enough to make up for the lack of actual healing abilities. Remember we are a healer first and formost, the rest is flair.
All of those sect abilities are basically a nerfed version of the spells they were build on, be it WHM healing over time or scholar shields. Not to mention that you cannot switch sect mid people which could potentially make up for it.

Also, you seem to be really taking this "take AST over" argument really weird. When people say that they ask why you would ever take an AST? What is their unique specialty compared to other healers, the thing that makes them stand out as a healer.
All we got are cards which simply do not make up for the lack of actual healing abilities.
Most AST want to be equal to the other healers, not inferior or superior.

[Rahaya]

Also, you seem to be really taking this "take AST over" argument really weird. When people say that they ask why you would ever take an AST? What is their unique specialty compared to other healers, the thing that makes them stand out as a healer.
All we got are cards which simply do not make up for the lack of actual healing abilities.
Most AST want to be equal to the other healers, not inferior or superior.

And I have said, AST is not perfect. I've proposed a change to make Celestial Opp a healing CD because we are healers and criticized Nocturnal. So we get a few more healing CDs. Say Nocturnal is basically the same but with the same gimmicks as the SCH shields (same potency, and double shield when crit). Collective Unconsious does something and we can move. Celestial Opposition isn't terrible.

Where is the impetus to bring an AST over WHM or SCH still? I feel like we'd still be seeing Selene napkin math comparisons and RNG complaints.

[TyloRime]

You should see a large number of the proposed buffing threads =P

Trust me, I think AST needs some work - I think perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying? There are just so many people in these threads claiming we want the job to be OP for the sake of being OP and I dont think most of us feel that way at all - we just want it to be Viable, which I would venture to guess you want as well.