Done with AST

[GideonHighmourn]

So can Aspect crit. Big deal? I never said that lustrate could not crit. It is effective as a 500 potency heal in regards to recovering from damage taken. It heals for about 1500 and shields for about 1500 on an instant cast that easily puts enough buffer in any raid encounter to make the difference. If I hit you with noc ben for a 1500 point heal and 1500 point shield and you get hit for 4k it is still 3k difference in damage healed and nullified. No if you look at it as a straight up heal then you are right it is only a 250 point heal.

So in that same mindset Succor = Medica, right?

We all know how untrue that is.

There's also a 100 potency difference between A. Benefic and Lustrate, and when you factor in crit, that's a major difference in total healing power. Lustrate (at iLvl 183) heals for between 4.1-4.2k on non-crit, and upwards of 6.5k+ on a crit. Is that the same as a 1.5k heal and 1.5k shield? No. A Benefic is also effected by the GCD, whereas Lustrate can be spammed OGCD without a 2.5s "wait" before casting again. Can A Benefic do that? No. Even spamming A Benefic twice on the same target, you get 3k HP and 1.5k shield, and spamming Lustrate twice will result in 8.2k-8.4k at least. Is that the same? No.

Saying A. Benefic = Lustrate is outright incorrect.

[GeekMatt]

I haven't played my SCH post 50 but if Lustrate is still capable of the 3 repetitive casts then nothing AST has competes with it. All casts involve GCD between or during casts OR really long CDs. If I spammed 5 Aspected Benefics in either stance it wouldn't compare to the usefulness of the 3 Lustrates.

If Lustrate got a GCD with it's potency adjustment then that's a super nerf.

[Lorielle]

You keep speaking of scholar dps and white mage superior healing. I am not fighting against SE fixing mana issues when we throw out our dots. My issue is everyone asking for potency buffs which we dont need. Or stronger healing cooldowns which we have. Our utility is enough to merit our slightly weaker potency in heals.


You honestly seem more interested in playing a white mage and just shrug your shoulders throwing blame on your static. Astrologian is not for everyone. You are an in between stronger healers and stronger supporting dps. It is suppose to be a more of a middle man healer compared to the two extremes of the others. You make up for it with cards that are strong in the right hands but do require precision coordination with dps that is almost silly in regards to the fire and forget utility of some other jobs. But if you do coordiate properly the cards are powerful enough to compare side by side with scholar and white mage.

More interested in White Mage? No, not really. WHM isn't really super special or interesting. It just makes things easier. Period. It's super straight forward. DS Regen and Medica II, Asylum and the HoTs will typically keep the tanks up enough for you to actually toggle Cleric Stance to DPS. Even if you can't, guess what your co-healer can do while you main heal? You guessed it! DPS! Strong healing Cool Downs? What is that? Lightspeed? While Lightspeed is MUCH better than it used to be, it's only available every 2 minutes and 30 seconds IIRC. While Divine Seal itself is on a minute timer along with lalalala Tetragammaton. Even Asylum and Assize are up before the re-use of Lightspeed. You don't see anything wrong with this do you? The best AST gets is Essential Dignity on 40 recast and it's efficiency lies on the lower the health of a person gets. However, once this is blown and they're thrown back into the red, what are you going to do? Lightspeed? Fair enough. Now Lightspeed and ED are down, tanks are in red again, what's next? Nothing. You spam Benefic 2 for deal life and cry because the potencies are weaker than that of Cure II. (Ideally weaving in the predecessors for procs, but I believe this is just basic knowledge)

Yes, AST has some interesting mechanics with their cards. But time and time again, it falls upon RNG to bless you with the cards that you need to actually promote these "buffs that compare to WHM and SCH". Consistency is key. That's what people seek for in progression. Not RNG. Here's something else to consider...Are you always going to be throwing out Buffed Balance cards to your DPS in progression? No. You might be throwing yourself or your Co-Healer an Ewer for MP management. Or Spire for the DPS. There's these factors you need to consider too and not just the 100% Balance all the time. Stop speaking from a OPTIMAL situation and try and more REALISTIC scenario where you are NOT getting the cards you want all the time. The time you spend throwing cards or using cards for RR preparation, you Co-Healer could be DPSing but they potentially CAN NOT because AST has trouble managing on their own on Raid Wide damage. Single Target? Not so much. But dual damage on tanks? Depends on how much they're taking. But AS2? Possibly manageable, but Synastry isn't always going to be there to help you.

[Vlady]

Yes being consistent is the key. Astrologian needs one thing really and that is the ability to move between noc and duirnal stance in combat through some method. Noc is the answer for Astrologian's ability to keep up with white mage for emergency situations. And you left out synastry along with being able to buff our own regens an extra 30% on the tank along with also ES would most likely be up again by the time you use up your other cooldowns.

If by then shit is still hitting the fan then all of these worst case scenarios would spell a wipe then you need to look at other factors. Yes I am aware you are trying to set me up in a corner to claim that bringing out a white mage would be factor but in a worse case scenario emergency healing should not happen more then 3 times a minute at most and Astrologian can cover that as well as a white mage can. And more precisely an astrologian would do well to be in nocturnal stance to support emergency situations over trying to be a slightly weaker white mage if you are using a white/astro combo.

[Leiloni]

Yes yes another one of these "oh no AST sux lol plz buff us" threads but I would just like SE to see that there's yet another AST unhappy with their job.

Now don't get me wrong I like the flare of the class, and I can even deal with the RNG cards. But when a WHM can follow a tank into a dungeon where the tank pulls 2+ groups of mobs and be fine, and I will go dry on MP before the mobs come to half and most of the time the tank doesn't even survive that long because I simply do not have the throughput, is rubbish.

So I'll be going back to my WHM with a full healing kit until you fix this poor job you so deem a "healer". I understand we have utility in card's that can do all kind's of cool things. And for other classes, such as BRDs and MCHs that deal a bit less damage because of their utility that's cool. But it simply does not work for a healing class. Just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with a class I was looking forward to playing and not beta testing. Thanks.

Can we all stop talking about Savage and get to the OP's point? OP is not anywhere near Savage if he can't heal regular level 60 dungeons (and going by how many "likes" his post got, a lot of other AST's are in the same situation).

AST has no problems with Neverreap, Fractal, or Alex Normal. I haven't done Bis Ex yet. Let's just all acknowledge that for that content, healing is fine (even in big pulls), mana is fine, buffs and dps are fine. I'm sure WHM/SCH is probably easier, but it's not difficult doing that stuff on AST and yes I run DF all day so I've seen all sorts of groups.

We all agree the class could use some work for harder content but the above stuff that OP seems to be discussing, and that most AST's are doing right now, is really not hard. Any AST that is having difficulty with that stuff just needs to improve a bit.

[YuiSasaki]

Can we all stop talking about Savage and get to the OP's point? OP is not anywhere near Savage if he can't heal regular level 60 dungeons (and going by how many "likes" his post got, a lot of other AST's are in the same situation).

AST has no problems with Neverreap, Fractal, or Alex Normal. I haven't done Bis Ex yet. Let's just all acknowledge that for that content, healing is fine (even in big pulls), mana is fine, buffs and dps are fine. I'm sure WHM/SCH is probably easier, but it's not difficult doing that stuff on AST and yes I run DF all day so I've seen all sorts of groups.

We all agree the class could use some work for harder content but the above stuff that OP seems to be discussing, and that most AST's are doing right now, is really not hard. Any AST that is having difficulty with that stuff just needs to improve a bit.

Yes, apparently people tend to get off-topic if it concerns AST :X.

On a side note BIS Ex is also clearable with AST w/o issues (concerning mana, healing, dps etc.)

If I'd summarize most of the last posts it's probably like this:

- most of us agree AST still needs some buffs
- most of us also agree that AST is capable of clearing content (let's keep Alex Savage out of this for now)
- most of us think that AST is fun, yet still weaker than WHM/SCH

So, all we got to do is wait for the future and how SE wants to "balance" AST after they get their results from observing AlexSavage X:

[silverhope]

I see everyone knocking Noct stance.. And here I am in love with it. I use Noct for most of Alex normal and the trys we put on faust we got the farthest while I was in Noct.

A1 I can keep Aspected Helios on everyone and the AOE does nothing to anyone this lets the other healer dps pretty much till the second add pops up. Aspected Helios + Bubble shield on the dive part is amazing as well and they again take no dmg.

A2 I am able to buff everyone and keep a aoe shield up without pulling aggro on everything. (medica II and Aspected helios Der pull so much aggro)

A3 is a toss up I like Noct but Dern takes the cake for this fight as well as A4

I think Astro could use a buff to Benefic potency so I can cast it more than Benefic II this would help with alot of mp issues. I have no issues in any experts or alex norm. I love the class and hope we can get savage done with me on astro as well. Again alittle buff would be nice to save some MP!

[Dortharl]

I've seen a lot of threads about Ast and while some people are bashing them others say they are fine. I guess it's for SE to decide if it's just whining and some people need to learn the class or if the complaints are justified. When I queue for a dungeon I always hope that the healer is either a whm or a sch not because I think it will be a wipe with an Ast but because with the other 2 healers I know the run will be smoother. I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

I just don't think the buffs they provide make up for the lack of healing,

[SpiralGalaxy]

I've done well as an Astrologian in the new content (dungeons, not raids and primals) overall - the one place the class seems to suffer most is high burst when the party is taking a lot of AoE.

But...I will agree with Dortharl, based on my own experience, that my old main (SCH) which I'm now leveling instead to 60 just feels a lot more comfortable to heal with. I'm not a theorycrafter but to say as a SCH, fights don't drain my HP as much, I have more time to DPS, and I feel I have more direct healing burst tools that pack a punch. This is a terrible shame, because I really love the concept and mechanics of the AST.

The one place in the new content I thought the class shone was in Neverreap on the last boss - Lightspeed has done a lot in that fight that I don't think my SCH could have done as easily. But until AST becomes more dependable, SCH will be my main healer. I have faith that AST will get more tweaks in time...when it does, it'll be my main again.

[Leiloni]

I'm only talking about 5 man content right now but in fractul on the first boss and on the last I always seemed on the point of death when an Ast was healing. This isn't really evidence since it's all based on my personal experience but I all get that dreaded feeling when I see those 2 cards. To be fair I get the same when I see 2 mchas dps or a brd and a mch, it's that oh god this is going to suck feeling.

Honestly the AST's you're getting in Fractal are bad and the MCH/BRD's your getting are also bad. I've cleared it numerous times on my AST with no problem and I've also cleared it with a DF Bard in my group in 70% HQ quest whites, including his weapon. So it's really not a hard dungeon for decent players.

Or, to be fair to those AST's, it's also possible that you're bad. :\

But either way, the group comp is not an issue as it's been my experience that any group of capable players can clear that without issue.

But Fractal first boss is a really easy fight. The only thing you should be taking any real damage from is I think it's called Rapid Sever? It's casted though and usually two back to back, so both the tank and healer should have plenty of time to prepare CD's and pre-cast a heal. And throwing in Disable when it's up on those is helpful as well. Last boss is more on the dps than anything else. There's nothing really out of the ordinary as far as tank damage. People just need to make sure they're moving out of the various things, debuffs are being cleansed, and other than that it's basic healing. If people get hit by bombs, or adds don't die quickly, things can get hairy and the healer will need to be on their toes, yes. But if the dps/tank do their part it should not be a hard fight for the healer.