What's the point of being elite at your job?

[Outfoxed]

Square doesn't let elite players really separate themselves from the pack. I was a diamond player in League of Legends because of my mechanical skill. My decision making was pretty mediocre, but then again, when you're mechanically better than most people you meet, almost every decision is technically a good one. If there's one thing I'm good at it's playing things at a mechanical level better than most people.

Now I go on FFXIV and my ability to outshine any goofball who can spend 20 minutes reading how to play dragoon is severely diminished. There's only so many ways an elite dragoon can press 1-2-3-4-[4th]-7-8-9-0-[4th] better than someone else. And if you're using all your oGCD abilities when they're off cooldown like you probably should most of the time, that gap is probably <10%.


Yeah sure you can double geirskogul during blood for blood (for all of 60potency/min), or you can use your ogcd abilities a couple gcd's earlier.... But for what? Single digit DPS bonuses for perfect execution?


Preemptively position yourself for elusive jump at t10 to jump to the next set of mobs? Congratulations, you got all of 2DPS points for that manoeuvre. Oh you dealt with wild charge without missing a single GCD? Your DPS went up all of 1 point. Congrats... You can do the W shape thing with Earthshakers and not miss a single GCD? Sorry, but your DPS only went up by 1.7 points.

It's even worse because the amount of dynamic decision making in this game is almost non-existent. Mechanics are scripted to the millisecond and there's not much you can do to do your stuff better than someone else. 3:27 Nael Deus Darnus uses Stardust. 5:46 Nael Deus Darnus uses Heavensfall. 7:21 Nael Deus Darnus poses for vanity fair (call me Nael). 9:21 Nael Deus Darnus goes to the bathroom. How does one outplay someone who knows exactly what's going to happen the moment it happens? There's only so many ways you can be at point A better than someone who is at point A 5 seconds before the boss casts his ability that requires him to be at point A. There's only so many ways I can dodge shivas icicle pattern better than someone who's already dodged the ability before shiva cast it (yes you can get another GCD or two... for 5 dps).

Square needs to reward players who are elite at their job more. There's no point in being an elite dragoon with skyscraper DPS numbers when Uzumaki Sasuke (real name: Jack Caldwell) can just spend 10 minutes reading how to play dragoon and maybe an hour practicing to be roughly 80-90% of an elite player. There's only so many ways you can press 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 better than someone else.

[m3eansean]

Ur so l337 brah.

I award you special snowflake status, here is your gold star sticker.

[Skullhack]

You are wrong. Elite players in MMORPG separate themselves by a perfect knowledge of boss and enemies paterns for PVE, and by skill and knowledge of all classes in PVP.

Now you put yourself in PVE context, and try to compare your skill to anyone else. Sure, hitting an optimal DPS is "easy" for everyone by reading guide and everything, but being able to deal your optimal DPS while applying boss strategy perfectly to make your tank/heal job easier is totally different.

Compare what can be compared first.

Sry for my spelling.

[Outfoxed]

You are wrong. Elite players in MMORPG separate themselves by a perfect knowledge of boss and enemies paterns for PVE, and by skill and knowledge of all classes in PVP.

Now you put yourself in PVE context, and try to compare your skill to anyone else. Sure, hitting an optimal DPS is "easy" for everyone by reading guide and everything, but being able to deal your optimal DPS while applying boss strategy perfectly to make your tank/heal job easier is totally different.

Compare what can be compared first.

Sry for my spelling.

"Perfect knowledge of boss and enemies patterns for PVE"

Any clown can spend an hour studying a book to know when Nael Deus Darnus decides to blink. I hardly get how that makes them elite.


Skill requirement != time requirement.

Knowing what a boss is going to do at every single second isn't skillful, it's just plain memorization. It's like doing a math test. You can a) memorize all the answers or b) actually know what you're doing. If you're dodging a bosses move before he actually uses his skill then I question the design of your game. That's like breaking into a safe when someone tells you the combination. You don't need to be an expert safecracker, you just have to have minimal brain functions.

[Skullhack]

Any clown can spend an hour studying a book to know when Nael Deus Darnus decides to blink. I hardly get how that makes them elite.


Skill requirement != time requirement.

Ok I repeat myself : PVE require 0 skill other than being able to dodge a big red circle that pop under your feet. It's all about knowledge and reaction to a situation you memorized because it's the only way to not give the ground a big kiss.

LoL is PVP, skill and a little of strategy (or just playing the op champ of the patch). FFXIV PVE is... PVE, yes. It's knowledge and positionning. If you want skill, go PVP.

Have you ever played WoW PVE btw ? It's exactly the same. Tell me one MMORPG that separate elite from beginers IN PVE BY THEIR SKILL.

[Skullhack]

Have you ever played WoW PVE btw ? It's exactly the same. Tell me one MMORPG that separate elite from beginers IN PVE BY THEIR SKILL.

So, no answer ?

After thinking about it : you are playing against AI and you can learn their pattern. On LoL, you are playing against other player, you can't learn their pattern, that's why there is no way to compare.

Now if you want skill in PVE, go play Monster Hunter, it require more skill than being Challenger on LoL.

[Tila]

"Perfect knowledge of boss and enemies patterns for PVE"

Any clown can spend an hour studying a book to know when Nael Deus Darnus decides to blink. I hardly get how that makes them elite.


Skill requirement != time requirement.

Knowing what a boss is going to do at every single second isn't skillful, it's just plain memorization. It's like doing a math test. You can a) memorize all the answers or b) actually know what you're doing. If you're dodging a bosses move before he actually uses his skill then I question the design of your game. That's like breaking into a safe when someone tells you the combination. You don't need to be an expert safecracker, you just have to have minimal brain functions.

Many would argue that the key to being skillful at MOBA is mostly knowing what others can do and how to react to it. IE: its a time requirement of how fast you can memorize things.

[Outfoxed]

Many would argue that the key to being skillful at MOBA is mostly knowing what others can do and how to react to it. IE: its a time requirement of how fast you can memorize things.

There's the time requirement there. But your skill matters a lot. It's not exactly a hard concept to last hit minions for example. But a good player will double a silver players CS any day of the week. There really isn't much of a knowledge requirement for CS aside from the fact that towers do ~45% of a melee minions health and maybe 75% of a ranged minions health. Not exactly a huge knowledge requirement to know what your opponents QWE are, hell you can google it before the match and know what they're going to throw at you. But the best players come out of that trade with a couple autoattacks more or get more minion damage out of their fight. A diamond player in a mirror matchup (basically adjusting for champion knowledge) against a silver will win 90% of the time.

A good player presented with the same knowledge as a bad player results in two different things. The bronze player will know what skills his opponent has but the diamond player will know what skills his opponents has AND how he will deal with it, how he will deal with any potential issues. The diamond player just reacts to the knowledge better than the bronze player because he knows how to apply it. So a bronze player might know that Tristanas E at level 1 did 110 base damage at level 1. But the diamond player is the one who will actively try to trade with that 110 base damage E because he knows he has an advantage and he pushes to abuse it.

[Twilite]

I'm going to pretend that isn't supposed to be Sonic.

Ur so l337 brah.

I award you special snowflake status, here is your gold star sticker.

I read that as "I award you special Frosted Flakes"..

[Reinfeld]

Your Reward: Farming tome grinds 3 minute faster and clearing Bismarck EX