For those who don`t get the problem with red scrips...

[Nekodar]

Bad analogy is bad.

For gathering, it takes less than 1 minute per 36 minutes to obtain 16-32 red scrips. You can get more if you have folklore nodes unlocked. If you have the worst luck ever, that's 32 minutes of actively doing anything to obtain those red scrips.

DoW/DoM have to spend on average 30 minutes IN a dungeon doing nothing but killing mobs and bosses to obtain their esoterics.. Per run. (Counting Expert dungeons only)
6 DR: Expert (with bonus) per week required.
That's 3 hours.

There are problems with the scrips system, but making bad analogies is not going to help anything.

[Gamer3427]

You know. The more I think on it, the less this bothers me over all. I can see this as having meant to be a response to all the DoH and DoL centric players complaining that there was so much more content and goals to work towards for the players who preferred combat, than there was for the crafters and gatherers. I may not have the time to actually grind for the Blue Scripts and Red Scripts, but I also don't have time to grind for all the Law and Esoteric tomestones to build up other classes in addition to my main, just as the DoH and DoL players that build up scripts don't have time to build up for even one DoW or DoM. Now that I really think about it, it's more of the casual crafters and gatherers like me that will be complaining because we can't reach the same levels as easily as the full time ones anymore, while the ones who do it full time will just see it as another goal to work towards and set themselves apart from those of us who just do it to make gil or save on gear and material prices. In a way, I'm fine with that. Good on you SE.....

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Actually, no. The more casual you are, the less the limits objectively matter because while certain players would stress about the amount of scrips they lose per week, in the end it is ultimately fruitless if you can't hit that limit constantly. And when it comes to playing casually, you choose (or are unable to) to -not- invest the time necessary to hit the limit week in and week out. Thus, makes the stress of trying to hit the cap, when you are fundamentally unable to, pointless.

Bleeding edge progression, when it comes to MMOs, is always catered to the hardcore. What makes this game geared to the casual/midcore is the ease of access it provides to get initiated into the game itself (Something FFXI lacked) and the ease of progression they get up until they hit the bleeding edge content. After that, it requires a certain time investment. Eventually, as the content ages, the scrip limit will decrease or get removed so casual/midcore players can have an easier path in progressing but at this moment, since it is extremely new still, they will have difficulty with it.

[Jerichai]

Actually, no.

Actually yes. However many scrips you don't make in a week are additional scrips you're permanently behind until the restrictions are removed. You can never do any extra beyond the weekly limit to work off that deficit until the cap is gone, and by that time a new grind will be put in place...meaning those that are behind now will continue to remain behind (as they'll likely need to finish the red scrip grind first).

Just because someone is more casual in their play style, either by choice or requirement, doesn't mean they can't keep up. But the weekly limit makes this harder to do. For instance, someone might have an off week where they barely can get online. However, the following week they could have some extra time to dedicate towards the grind. The problem is with the weekly cap...they can't use the time they have to make up for the missed week, even if they have the time at that given moment.

For hardcore players, hitting the weekly cap is trivial. They'll likely never fall into a deficit by virtue of being hardcore players.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

They can keep up but purely by the disparity of time invested, they will always be behind by some degree. The weekly limit, actually, hits everyone but it hits everyone differently depending on how much time they can invest into the game. It affects hardcore players the most because it limits how much they can accomplish at a given time if they have more time available than what the limit needs.

For a hardcore player, they see the limit as a cap to their potential but its a cap put on as a business necessity to keep subscriptions flowing.
For a casual player, they will not always hit the limit purely because of the lack of time invested compared to a hardcore/midcore.

As stated, casuals can keep up but it is more and more difficult based on time available and that is either by choice (Having a family, other goals, other games they want to play) or by circumstance (Work, for instance as we all MUST work to have a living, unless you are one of the few in the world who is wealthy)

Maybe your problem isn't the cap necessarily but the weekly refresh.

[SgtPepperUK]

Yup NO WORD FROM YOSHI... look forward to it

Let's give it time and just make sure we keep discussion going.

My own 2 pence...crafting doesn't need endgame. Let people omnicraft, let them be able to make anything without all this gating, move on from a small percentage of crafters making a lot of gil to all crafters being able to make some gil because we know some people will never craft anyway so there will be a market (hell, people buy from MB things that can be bought cheaper from an NPC so omnicrafting is not going to destroy the market).

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Fair enough. I disagree with that opinion because what about those who dedicate themselves to crafting instead of combat or gathering? They deserve something to work towards just like the rest of us who specialize in combat or gathering or all three. In my view, we need to think about why the system is designed the way it is. You have groups of people who all aim for something different, so when you have a system like XIVs, it gives a long term goal for everyone. Unfortunately, there will be consequences.

[Kosmos992k]

There's this thing called having a life. Some (most) people have to leave the computer to go to work for 8 hours a day, sleep, and other misc. activities. Suddenly those 11 hours look a lot bigger.

168 hours per week, 16.8 hours = 10%

Therefore 11 hours = roughly 6.5%.

If you figur 8 hours sleep, 5 days of 10 hours for work/school, and maybe a couple of hours a a day for basic nutrition and hygene you quickly see that you dont hav 168 hours, you have about 40 hours for things other than the essentials. 11 out of 40 is 27.5% of your 'free' time. Seems more significant than that 0.06% you mentioned.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Correct. I screwed up the decimal to percentage conversion.

However, 27.5% of your free time for bleeding edge MMO content for your main seems pretty standard for MMOs. If you reduce that time, you risk the game becoming too easy and thus you lose a portion of the audience. If you increase that time, you risk the game becoming too hard and thus you lose a portion of the audience. It's a delicate balance.

You also need to figure what type of player bleeding edge MMO content is designed for. You cannot design content for Casual players and Hardcore players to both be happy with. They are completely two seperate groups with completely different goals.

[Kaedan]

Aside from the having to "run a dungeon" 15-16 times to cap, that doesn't sound bad. The token prices seem fair and if blue scrips are as easy to get as Law, then at least it gives you something to do with the Law tokens. I've bought a full set of Law gear for two jobs already, and I'm almost back to the 2k cap again.