Page 20 of 23 FirstFirst ... 10 18 19 20 21 22 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 226
  1. #191
    Player
    AdamFyi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    973
    Character
    Adam Fylrmyn
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    Seriously, can't people just clear raids without parsers? Why do you need that clutch?
    Simple; you can. Parsers do not provide any sort of significant advantage against those who don't use them. A lot of players use it to gauge the party's performance in an encounter, or to see how well they can hold themselves up during the encounter.

    Problem is that some encounters do not allow you to turtle through the fight, as evident with the many enrage timers in a lot of the encounters. Having your party wipe to an encounter due to lack of damage output is easy to see, but as to who or what is causing it - you would need to take a few to go through the battle logs and calculate everything by hand. Parsers just compile the data to make it easier to see.

    Unless, of course, you would rather sift through the battle logs; then by all means do so. As a PS4 player myself, I would love to have an official parser to gauge my own performance. I really don't care about other people's output, with the exception of high-end encounters like savage and extreme primals. I want to know how well I'm doing without needing to bother other people to gauge my performance. :u
    (1)
    Last edited by AdamFyi; 07-26-2015 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Edited the first sentence; misinterpretation

  2. #192
    Player
    Bishop81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    806
    Character
    Eldon Pierce
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFyi View Post
    Problem is that some encounters do not allow you to turtle through the fight, as evident with the many enrage timers in a lot of the eencounters. Having your party wipe to an encounter due to lack of damage output is easy to see, but as to who or what is causing it - you would need to take a few to go through the battle logs and calculate everything by hand. Parsers just compile the data to make it easier to see.
    /start rant; no offense, just needed to get it off my chest (edit: not necessarily targeted at you)

    What do you do with that data? Compare it with the rest of your teammates? What will that prove? You failed the encounter because your raid DPS wasn't high enough.

    What are you going to do? Come to the forums and QQ that your DPS is 1% lower than the top DPS in your group and beg for buffs? Great, just great, we need more of that. Ever thought that different Jobs might have different DPS in different situations because *grasp* they have different mechanics? Or are you one of those that insist that everyone has to output the same DPS in all situations? Homogeneous classes. Is that what you want?

    To quote Ghostcrawler,

    If the WoW devs read this, how likely would it be for them to agree? http://t.co/CIM3r2TTrL
    I never felt like all classes had to be equal in all things. Can't someone just be better at burst AE? (OccupyGStreet)

    Does Blizzard worry most about dps balance as raid tiers open, and not that much about balance as ppl start farming the tier?
    Can't speak for it now, but when I was there, we worried more about new content than farmed content balance. (OccupyGStreet)
    The idea being that a low performing spec might get sat on a new boss, but unlikely when stuff was on farm. (OccupyGStreet)
    At some point we as a community started worrying about an individual's "right" to high DPS rather than the DPS of the entire raid. (OccupyGStreet)
    Rather than "Did we beat the boss?" it became "Did I beat my warlock friend?" (OccupyGStreet)
    DPS check will be overcome with time anyway as you get better gear. Is it really necessary to kill yourself over it? It's a video game.

    /end rant
    (1)
    Last edited by Bishop81; 07-26-2015 at 01:13 PM.

  3. #193
    Player
    KaijinRhada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    680
    Character
    Jaou Stormchaser
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    It's a diagnostic tool. If you know approximately the average and top end of the spectrum of DPS, it allows you to more accurately aim for it if that's what you're looking for and to see where others stand in relation to their job's averages and top ends. You don't need it, but it certainly helps if you want precision. Just like in any other game, not every one will run one and not everyone will care. Those of us that use it use it for the purpose of refining our rotations and priorities. In group play, we can see where and who needs to tighten it up. I won't expect it from PuGs, but only with like minded players, which is what statics are for.
    (2)
    I'ma go punch that.
    Tank and DPS

  4. #194
    Player
    AdamFyi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    973
    Character
    Adam Fylrmyn
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    /end rant
    Please keep it civilized. Let's not resort to personal attacks, m'kay? It paints a bad picture of yourself.

    With that out of the way, data is data. It's useful to know how the group is doing. Skilled players can throw out good damage while doing mechanics. It's nice to know, but it isn't completely necessary. Plus it's not that hard to say, "Sorry if my damage output was bad, [mechanic] is making it quite troublesome."

    So i ask you whom shuns the use, what are you going to do if your group does not meet the damage check? How would you address the situation? Not trying to out you or anything, I'm just curious.
    (0)

  5. #195
    Player
    tymora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,724
    Character
    Tymora Estrellauta
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    A personal parser will be useful.
    (1)

  6. #196
    Player
    Bishop81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    806
    Character
    Eldon Pierce
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFyi View Post
    Please keep it civilized. Let's not resort to personal attacks, m'kay? It paints a bad picture of yourself.

    With that out of the way, data is data. It's useful to know how the group is doing. Skilled players can throw out good damage while doing mechanics. It's nice to know, but it isn't completely necessary. Plus it's not that hard to say, "Sorry if my damage output was bad, [mechanic] is making it quite troublesome."

    So i ask you whom shuns the use, what are you going to do if your group does not meet the damage check?
    Ask I have stated, it was a rant. Although I was replying to you, it isn't necessarily targeted at you. Again, as I said, I just had to get it off my chest.

    As for what happens if the group doesn't meet the damage check? Everyone go and try to improve as much as they can. Over time, gear will nerf the difficulty of the encounter anyway.
    (1)

  7. #197
    Player
    Velox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Sharlayan
    Posts
    2,205
    Character
    Velo'a Nharoz
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    Seriously, can't people just clear raids without parsers? Why do you need that clutch?
    Well you can. In fact, parsers really only have been in the spotlight since WoW became a thing. Older MMOs were a time when parsers and other applications really didn't exist. Back then we simply beat enrage timers and DPS checks through brute force trial and error. Because we had nothing helping us, we learned to watch everyone, including ourselves, simultaneously and gauge DPS based on visual performance (rotational requirements, skill timings, gear, planned buff rotations, movement keys, party announcements, etc.) Basically we all developed a unique skill for gauging an entire party's performance without using numbers directly. After countless battles, you could watch an entire fight going down and say to yourself "Wizard A is not pulling his weight, especially during phase 3 of the battle" all while doing your own thing at the same time.

    Parsers simply make that content easier and more accessible for the people who could not hone that level of skill. In a good sense, they opened up difficult encounters to a wider audience. In a bad sense, modern MMO community has grown too dependent on them.

    As a metaphor, parsers were supposed to be wheelchairs when they first started appearing. You could use one to help you get around if you didn't have the strength or ability to walk yourself. The problem is that modern gamers started using them simply out of laziness because it takes a lot more work to walk a distance than letting a chair do it for you (even if you don't have the disability that warrants the wheelchair). It's not all their fault though, it's the gaming culture that's driving them in that direction. Most are oblivious to how dependent they are on parsers now simply because they are ignorant of any other way to complete things. To them, it's the "norm" of MMO gaming, and is continue to spiral more and more out of control because of that.
    (0)

  8. #198
    Player
    Krylo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    272
    Character
    Khaela Alteri
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    Snip
    Firstly, Ghostcrawler's quotes are dumb. The DPS of the entire raid = every single person's DPS added up. The reason communities care about if a class can't reach the same DPS as other classes of the same type is, well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    What do you do with that data?
    Use it to fix the problem.

    In the case of an underperforming player this can mean either fixing them or dropping them, depending on the cut throatness of any specific static and how quickly/easily they learn. In the case of an underperforming class it means not taking that class.

    It's not an 'individual's right to DPS', it's an 'individual's right to be included'. Raid DPS is everyone's DPS added together, and pretending that individual class DPS isn't an important part of that is pants on head retarded. It's like saying in 2+2=4 that the 2s are unimportant. Just so long as you have 4 at the end, what does it matter if you're 1+3 or 0+4, but if you 4s exist, why would anyone bring 0 or 1? Even 3s? Everyone would stack the classes capable of 4, and get 4+4=8 and finish the fight twice as fast, push phases faster, avoid mechanics, reduce healing stress, etc. Make everything much easier.

    Unless those underperforming classes have enough utility to increase raid DPS by as much as, or more than, you lose by taking them, they're never going to be taken, because the end result IS what matters. Beating the raid--and beating it cleanly and quickly. The individual cogs are important for getting it done but if a cog doesn't work? You replace it or fix it.

    And, as the post above me has pointed out: It's not new. People did it before parsers. It was just more of a pain in the ass as you needed to know every class's rotation, watch all of them while doing your own thing, and read the battle log and math it out, just to be sure, on the games that had them. And a lot of the time, the people who thought they knew? Didn't. Just like you get arrogant people in FFXIV telling people to do incredibly wrong things now and again. They were in these old games and it was really much more difficult to counter them.

    And as for the competition bit: This has been around since before parsers. Since before the trinity. Since before there were even graphics. This has been around since before there were even internet games. People who play anything together do this--they compete for points. And friendly competition improves over all ability. If you're always top DPS it's easy to stagnate, but if your friend is nipping at your heels or passing you, and ribbing you about it? That's reason to get better. And as you get better, that gives your friend reason to get better too, and keep up. It gives you a 'rival' to compete with and hone yourself against.

    This is why you have friendly team competition in LotA on the Atomos boss. If everyone's trying to burn faster than the other groups instead of 'just get through it', everyone is burning harder. The entire raid finishes faster. And everyone has more fun.

    That's not a problem. It's a perfectly healthy and normal method of human interaction AND a good way to improve.
    (1)
    Last edited by Krylo; 07-26-2015 at 01:35 PM.

  9. #199
    Player
    Bishop81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    806
    Character
    Eldon Pierce
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Krylo View Post
    Firstly, Ghostcrawler's quotes are dumb. The DPS of the entire raid = every single person's DPS added up. The reason communities care about if a class can't reach the same DPS as other classes of the same type is, well:

    Use it to fix the problem.

    In the case of an underperforming player this can mean either fixing them or dropping them, depending on the cut throatness of any specific static and how quickly/easily they learn. In the case of an underperforming class it means not taking that class.
    I think you are missing the point of the quote. But whatever.

    So you admit you are a "ruthless" player that will drop anyone if they don't help you progress. Is that the kind of community SE wants to encourage? YoshiP plays WoW, he has seen first hand just how out of control it can get with player demands over DPS deltas and the way players treat one another.
    (1)
    Last edited by Bishop81; 07-26-2015 at 01:27 PM.

  10. #200
    Player
    Assirra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    775
    Character
    M'irau Rhya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop81 View Post
    stupid pointless rant
    If you don't have the ability to have a decent discussion without "ranting" why come here at all?

    The point is that with the data that parsers give you can analyze where exactly the issue is. Has nothing to do with crying about buffs and if that is the latest excuse against parsers you are really grasping for strings at this point.

    Also, this thread is getting quite hypocritical at this point.
    Nobody else is allowed to judge your way of play but if other people dare to do it otherwise it's nonsense like "Is that the kind of community SE wants to encourage?"

    Different strokes for different folks.
    (4)
    Last edited by Assirra; 07-26-2015 at 01:29 PM.

Page 20 of 23 FirstFirst ... 10 18 19 20 21 22 ... LastLast