This red scrip system doesn't seem very casual-friendly..

[Gilthas]

Greetings,

Thank you all for the feedback regarding the acquisition rate of red scrips. Among the various feedback we've been collecting regarding red scrips, we're also aware that players feel that the amount of red gatherers' and crafters' scrips earned is too low which leads to the amount of work to obtain them higher than it should be.

We're planning to make adjustments in next week's hotfix, so please hang in there a bit longer.

Finally something to address the ridiculous grind that Crafting and Gathering was turned in to. Hopefully it's a noticeable adjustment and not some token "fix".

There's still a lot of other issues that need to be resolved though, such as the ridiculous amount of items needed for recipees and recipees that require items that can only be obtained at much higher levels or locked behind higher level quests.

[Fenral]

I agree, and in addition to that, I feel the weekly cap is just way too low. We're already gated in so many other ways - mats being one of them - it just seems silly with how long we have to wait just to get one little gear improvement, that only crafters/gatherers can use. We're basically gated to gear up ourselves, forget about anyone else.

That's precisely the point of the cap, unfortunately. Gear yourself, then gear others. They're trying their damnedest to suppress the ability of those five people (you know, them) on a given server who can guarantee HQ anything at a cost that lets them sell just low enough suppress others from getting in on the market. The problem is that they've unintentionally hamstrung the people who actually do want to specialize, even though that's the playstyle they wanted to encourage.

The current cap and gear prices put it in line with the DoW/DoM gearing restrictions, which only let you focus on one Job at a time, which, as someone who only ever focused on a few of the many available crafters and gatherers, is fine with me. The idea is that different players will start off gearing different classes, and the inability to do everything on your own right off the bat will foster cooperation with other players, increasing the rate at which gil circulates, ultimately creating a better economy for everyone. It's a sound concept, but it's been implemented into an economy that was already too badly damaged for this kind of system to work as intended at launch.

By leaving the cap as-is, the overall speed of gearing stays the same as for combat classes, but by increasing the rate at which players can obtain red scrips towards that cap, it becomes a lot less punishing for specialists like myself to hit cap. The weekly cap also impacts the rate at which the materials for the crafted AF hit the market, which in the short term means that the people who already have the melded shared gear to acquire those materials now can sell at ridiculous prices to the extremely small minority that can afford them right now. Those players, however, still lack the gear required to guarantee HQ anything, so they are taking a rather sizeable risk by even attempting those recipes now. Ideally, they fail more than they succeed, putting tens of millions of gil (per attempt) back into circulation in the process and making them much more cautious of future attempts.

In a month or so, when players who skipped melding gear to go straight to red scrip gear have finally geared up enough on one class to spend red scrips on favors instead, the amount of materials on the market will increase dramatically, driving prices down to levels that will allow the less-wealthy red-scrip-geared crafters to buy them as well. That will increase the availability of crafted AF2, allowing people limited by the weekly cap to start gearing their other crafting classes in addition to their mains. There will even be a (small) market for the NQ crafted AF2, as it can simply be glamoured over the red-scrip version to make that same gear dyeable.


Tl;dr: the idea is that for the current omnicrafters to stay omnicrafters, they will need to buy things from other people, increasing the rate at which gil circulates, ultimately allowing more players to participate in the economy in smaller roles. It's also no longer possible to become an omnicrafter in a day.



...Or at least, I'm sure that's how this system was pitched to Yoshida. Time will tell if it really has a positive impact on the economy.

[Galactimus]

I don't want to have to fight with 100 other people JUST to even target the node; I already have to do that with the NPCs in Idlyshire.

Hold down the X button on the keyboard. Player names vanish and only NPC's remain targetable.

[chrillix]

Oh my god. The acquisition of red scripts isn't even close to the biggest problem with this system. Needing TWENTY gathering mats obtainable ONLY from favors for ONE synth worth of crafting mats IS WHAT NEEDS FIXING.

[Gilthas]

(...)

This point of view has one big problem:

- It's true that DoW and DoM will likely focus on gearing one job at a time, but then again, you only need 1 job to do ALL battle content. The same is not true for DoH and DoL.

SE needs to stop designing content around the MB and instead design it around players. Keeping prices on the MB is a vicious cycle that only leads to people complaining that they can't make gil, which in turn leads SE to make items rarer to drive up the prices for people that make gil by farming mats.

I love the ability to craft everything on a single crafter, yet have no interest in farming gil off of the MB and would be pretty happy if the damn thing was just removed from the game.

[Nanga]

That's precisely the point of the cap...Gear yourself, then... They're trying to suppress the ability of those five people on a given server...

Sorry, but it's just not fun, nor does it help casual gamers who AREN'T those *5* uber crafters, when it takes over a year to get all your gear, and that's if you ARE an uber crafter.

Here's where the argument of "overall speed of gearing stays the same as combat classes" also breaks down: 1st, my combat class i-level is already far above and beyond what my crafters can get. Secondly, combat classes rely absolutely NONE on crafting classes, while crafting classes rely on combat classes for materials. (As the crafting system is currently designed)

So, not only are crafters gated behind the things I already mentioned but crafters are ALSO gated behind combat classes gearing up in order to get mats for the crafters. Yet another gate. How many gates do the combat classes have which rely on crafters currently?

[Fenral]

snip

Not having a Market Board at all was one of 1.0's biggest problems, especially since buying gear from other players was the only way to gear after level 20. When you get right down to it, it's really just another way for players to interact.

While it may not appeal to you, omnicrafting made it too easy for players to profit by selling items below what it cost non-omnicrafters to make them in the first place, creating an artificial barrier to entry that more or less turned crafting into "omni or nothing," which further lessened the appeal of crafting, which further reduced the number of players doing it, allowing a small number of players to dominate the market. You'd see the same names on everything being sold.

I believe the intent of the current system is to make it easier for more players to produce fewer items, instead of allowing a few players producing in bulk to dominate the economy. This increases the appeal of crafting to players who only have time to specialize in one or two classes, ultimately increasing the overall accessibility of the economy, making things cheaper for everyone. You will, eventually, be able to craft everything yourself again, but being able to at launch with 2.0 was a problem that's had two years to escalate.

They misstepped in one or three places at 3.0 launch, but if the upcoming adjustments to red scrips make it easier for specialists instead of punishing them, I believe it will be a step in the right direction.

So, not only are crafters gated behind the things I already mentioned but crafters are ALSO gated behind combat classes gearing up in order to get mats for the crafters. Yet another gate. How many gates do the combat classes have which rely on crafters currently?

Unlike 1.0, which made you a bystander and gave you a proxy character to fight for you in Main Scenario quests, crafting in 2.0 was only ever intended as a supplement to combat classes. Wait for the new relic. If it's anything like the first one, there will be plenty of crafting requirements involved.

And I realize I said a lot in my earlier post, but it will probably only take about a month or two for omnicrafter gearing to be possible, not an entire year, and even then that's assuming you still feel the need to buy all eight sets of crafted AF2 and perfectly meld them, which isn't actually necessary for the master recipes, just makes them much less reliant on RNG. Red scrips will also be uncapped at some point, allowing you to get the rest without buying the crafted versions, but obviously they can't uncap from the get-go.

They're still trying to find a balance that will let "casual" (your word) players feel like they can keep up while also keeping the truly frightening players from accomplishing everything immediately and cornering the market. They've also pretty much acknowledged that the current system is hampering the former more than intended, which is why adjustments are happening.

[Zfz]

Just do away with the timed nodes, seriously. Requiring players to be at specific places at specific times is never casual friendly.

I can accept RNG to a certain extent because modern human-machine interface do not allow any form of reliable skill adjustment and RNG is the only way to provide variation. But timed nodes?

I challenge the devs to not test play this game during their working time. Try doing it for a month straight, after work, when you get home, and you may see how frustrating this can be.

Unless gathering was never designed for casuals, and you're trying to create a real "hardcore end-game" to gathering, so that players who specialize in gathering have something satisfying to do, then sure, why not. But as long as it's also designed for casuals, timed nodes is only ever going to be an annoyance.

1. The existence of a weekly cap is casual friendly by definition. Its purpose is to balance things out between the people who have about enough time to collect that many scrips and people who would be able to get 5x that many if the cap weren't there.

I beg to differ. It's first and foremost effect is to limit the "hardcore" progression, which has nothing to do with being casual friendly. It's second most immediate effect, is that missing the cap puts you permanently behind on your progression---not relative to the others, but relative to your own progression potential---and the group of people most likely to ever miss weekly caps? The casual players.

What the weekly cap does is to satisfy people who pretend to be casuals yet want hardcore progression. What casual players want is to be able to enjoy the game and progress at their own pace. That means allowing us to farm 2000 Esoterics or 2000 Red Scripts in a weekend if we want, then we go off playing some newly released game for 3 weeks and then come back to log in again.

The weekly caps force us to keep coming back almost every day and that is not casual.

[ChasteDaily]

1. The existence of a weekly cap is casual friendly by definition.

This would be true except for one thing. While the scrips and the resulting tokens are non-tradeable, the materials you buy with those tokens is tradeable.

Now you have created a haven for gold farmers who have multiple characters to be the primary source for materials. The system, as implemented, is actually catered to the ultra hardcore.

I can wait 6 weeks behind the gate to get the materials to make the offhand items for my crafters. If I level another character to 60 and power level culinarian, I can cut that time in half. I power level that same character to 60 botanist and I'm on easy street.

This system is the antithesis of casual friendly.

[Magistrella]

Greetings,

Thank you all for the feedback regarding the acquisition rate of red scrips. Among the various feedback we've been collecting regarding red scrips, we're also aware that players feel that the amount of red gatherers' and crafters' scrips earned is too low which leads to the amount of work to obtain them higher than it should be.

We're planning to make adjustments in next week's hotfix, so please hang in there a bit longer.

While you are at it change the amounts favor items show up. 11 1/2 hours per week for an average of 9 items for i170 gear is way too much. There is no supply on the MB (even after a week) thats even close to reasonable pricing

But anyways: ty - at least something is done about this horrible system...